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The ETHICS of Training.


Original Post
Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

I'm not backing down and it didn't seem prudent to post in the Training Forum.

The incessant need to train for climbing is cheating relative to the first ascensionist who didn't train. A new climber can essentially ski the school of hard knocks by climbing in the gym and immediately jumping on 5.11+ routes outside.

We're not talking about the merits of training. It's obvious that it works or no one would do it. This is an ethics issue through and through. 

Just my two cents. I am way more impressed by the first ascensionist who put routes up than the person who spent 6 months in the gym and hopped outside.

Ethics, not merit.

Peter J · · Davis, CA · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 145

LOL

lucander · · Stone Ridge, NY · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 257
Jake wander · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 185

I think the people that actually climb and not train have it easier than people who train in a gym. Think about how boring it is training in a gym. What a mental hurdle to overcome. Also the gym trainees have to overcome their lack of experience and skills to make the ascent. Who cares if some guy who has done 1000 outdoor climbs does one more?

;)

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,445
Dean-o! N wrote:

I'm not backing down and it didn't seem prudent to post in the Training Forum.

The incessant need to train for climbing is cheating relative to the first ascensionist who didn't train. A new climber can essentially ski the school of hard knocks by climbing in the gym and immediately jumping on 5.11+ routes outside.

We're not talking about the merits of training. It's obvious that it works or no one would do it. This is an ethics issue through and through. 

Just my two cents. I am way more impressed by the first ascensionist who put routes up than the person who spent 6 months in the gym and hopped outside.

Ethics, not merit.

You're stealing my shtick!

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0
lucander wrote:

Because what I write strikes close to home. I'm not saying you live in the gym. Rather, you can't deny that there should be less respect given for setting a fake boulder problem to mimic an outdoor classic. It's cheating. Some hold companies even sell "sets" of real boulder problems. Just seems like skipping the process than learning how.

Sean Haynes · · Los Angeles · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 107
Dean-o! N wrote:

I'm not backing down and it didn't seem prudent to post in the Training Forum.

The incessant need to train for climbing is cheating relative to the first ascensionist who didn't train. A new climber can essentially ski the school of hard knocks by climbing in the gym and immediately jumping on 5.11+ routes outside.

We're not talking about the merits of training. It's obvious that it works or no one would do it. This is an ethics issue through and through. 

Just my two cents. I am way more impressed by the first ascensionist who put routes up than the person who spent 6 months in the gym and hopped outside.

Ethics, not merit.

you're overly sensitive. 

Alexander Blum · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 132

Is this serious? Like, could you say this with a straight face in person, and carry on the discussion for ten minutes without erupting into laughter?

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

Some folks have to train to do a bonafide FIRST ascent but that is the exception for the cutting edge.

Why am I wrong when there are hold companies selling well known outdoor routes/ problems? 

Victor K · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2003 · Points: 170

This can be said about pretty much every human endeavor. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Good thing you don't have to figure out Maxwell's Equations from first principles in order to make a phone call. Or work out Newton's Laws of Motion in order to convey yourself from one place to another. All of our lives are easier that our predecessors because that's what humans do. With respect to climbing, you're simply too late to the game. If you want hard, do things that haven't been done yet.

Mobes Mobesely · · MDI · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 865

Whats really over the top is "training for bouldering". I always thought bouldering WAS the training for real climbing.

Sean Haynes · · Los Angeles · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 107
T Roper wrote:

Whats really over the top is "training for bouldering". I always thought bouldering WAS the training for real climbing.

climbing is over the top... like, you can usually just walk around???

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

Put the bong down and try to understand. If never build a solid foundation by working through grades you WILL run into trouble at some point.

Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 2,605

Yes. This is correct. You are 100% absolutely right. Everyone should only climb outdoors. It will make the routes I'm climbing way less crowded.

Sean Haynes · · Los Angeles · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 107
Dean-o! N wrote:

Put the bong down and try to understand. If never build a solid foundation by working through grades you WILL run into trouble at some point.

Your argument is stupid and doesn't even warrant a reasonable conversation.

Chris C. · · Seattle, WA · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 337

Yeah, I totally agree.  First ascents are only legit if the person was birthed at the bottom of the route and spent their early years learning to crawl and walk in the direct vicinity of the base.  The person's first climbing moves ever should also be on the route in question.  Only legit way.  Make climbing great again.

Like or Share if you agree.  

kendallt · · Tahoe · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 118

It's funny, there's history behind this seemingly ridiculous idea.

Part of the reason the first ascent of Everest took so long was because the British didn't train for climbing. They thought it was un-sportsmanlike and un-gentlemanly to train.

They only dove into training when they realized they were going to be beat by people who did train.

A few (or, many) years pass, and now training is king. Steve House. Ueli Steck. Etc.

Mark E Dixon · · Sprezzatura, Someday · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 569
Dean-o! N wrote:

 you WILL run into trouble at some point.

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/431089/Music-Man-The-Movie-Clip-Trouble.html

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

Solid points. What can I say? I make mistakes just like anyone else.

caughtinside · · Oakland CA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 1,450

Your thesis has a historical basis. 

There's an old film of Henry Barber in England, on Dreams of White Horses.  The english bloke he was climbing with claimed it was "hardly sporting" that Hot Henry hadn't had a couple pints the night before.  Sure seems like cheating to me. 

Andrew Krajnik · · Plainfield, IL · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 1,832
Victor K wrote:

This can be said about pretty much every human endeavor. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Good thing you don't have to figure out Maxwell's Equations from first principles in order to make a phone call. Or work out Newton's Laws of Motion in order to convey yourself from one place to another. All of our lives are easier that our predecessors because that's what humans do. With respect to climbing, you're simply too late to the game. If you want hard, do things that haven't been done yet.

I had a buddy in college (engineering school) who joking posited a theory that Sir Isaac Newton was actually a guy from the future with an over-inflated ego. According to this theory, Newton traveled back in time just so he could have the Laws of Physics, advances in fluid dynamics and optics, numerous numerical and computational methods, etc. named after him.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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