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What do you expect from a gym?

Nick Kozlowski · · Idaho Falls, ID · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 0

This is a great thread and really made me re-think some reservations I have. I just have one question topic no one really has brought up yet, gym hours.

What do you expect from a climbing "gym" in terms of accommodating schedules? Do you prefer gyms that are open early in the day, to get some weights in before work, maybe a yoga class before work? Or do most people look for late nights to go after work, or a longer commute means less climb time? 

Let's bring this back around to serious talk 

caesar.salad · · earth · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 75

I expect to be able to take my shirt off. I run really really hot. And yes I am a loud boulder bro.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Franck Vee wrote:

Well, of course if you only do pullups you training plans sucks, that's the issue, not the general concept of a training plan in itself. ;) More seriously, you may just be a great athlete kinda of naturally - everyone's "natural mileage"  without concerted effort to improve my vary. So great on you for great performance without being so serious about it.

That being said, to negate the idea that you can help your body improve at a sport by performing exercise to strenghten it more specifically than by just practicing the activity itself is just silly. If we follow your logic, the best way to be a great 100 meter dash sprinter would be to just run a bunch of 100 meters everyday. It's just not the case.  Or maybe you would still allow variation in the distance?

At any rate, the "there was a guy once who did X and it worked well for him, therefore X is the best way to do things" is just not rationnally very strong... you do see that right? Especially when X is a random guy on the interwebs who may or not be making stuff up.

That being said, great on you for enjoying climbing just for the climbing itself. And you probably do spend more time actually climbing than I do, which must be great. But for my part, I'm still curious to see how grades that I currently cannot really touch feel like, and the way to get there is to include at least some training into it. That's my motivation to climb, and to traing, at the moment.

I think you miss my point, slightly. I'm not saying training doesn't help, it can, but climbing is so diverse in skills that training is a pointless distraction from what you really need to climb well.

It's the focus on the numbers that I think is useless. The best climbers don't train at all, save for some of the comp climbers out there.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Nicholas Kozlowski wrote:

This is a great thread and really made me re-think some reservations I have. I just have one question topic no one really has brought up yet, gym hours.

What do you expect from a climbing "gym" in terms of accommodating schedules? Do you prefer gyms that are open early in the day, to get some weights in before work, maybe a yoga class before work? Or do most people look for late nights to go after work, or a longer commute means less climb time? 

Let's bring this back around to serious talk 

Early mornings or notoriously under attended at most gyms. I have seen a few exceptions. From a direct financial stand point opening early doesn't pay, however, the idea that you can come in at 6am does sell memberships even if those people never come in, in the morning.

As a customer I do expect my gym to open at 6 but I can't say I've ever used that option!

The first gym I worked at opened at 4pm, it was awesome, climb outside all day and work until 11.

Bryce Adamson · · Connecticut · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 1,443
Tradiban wrote:

The best climbers don't train at all, save for some of the comp climbers out there.

This maybe used to be true, but not anymore. It doesn't mean, however, that there aren't plenty of average climbers training off the wall when they would be better off climbing.

For me, I just want plenty of varied bouldering terrain and room for traversing or climbing wherever I want so I can climb circuits, link-ups, enduro-laps, work limit moves, etc.

Deirdre · · Pocatello, ID · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 21

I would definitely like some flexibility schedule wise. The gym I climb at is located at a university and they have to schedule around classes. That sucks but the university has an outdoor education program and that seems to attract a number of good climbers capable of setting some nice routes. 

I'm short so the quality of holds is really important. I have climbed in gyms where folks thought putting small crimpers very far apart was the only way to make a climb hard. For a short person this is a recipe for finger disaster. I think a wide variety of holds is really important as well.

The other thing that makes a good gym is a supportive community. My daughter is mildly autistic and has a sensory integration issue. She has started climbing, mostly traversing, and everyone is super supportive of her. She hangs out at the desk talking to the students who run the gym and people cheer her on when she is trying to top rope. Now she's getting a lot more confident and looks forward to going to the gym. 

Franck Vee · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2017 · Points: 260
Tradiban wrote:

I think you miss my point, slightly. I'm not saying training doesn't help, it can, but climbing is so diverse in skills that training is a pointless distraction from what you really need to climb well.

It's the focus on the numbers that I think is useless. The best climbers don't train at all, save for some of the comp climbers out there.

This is funny.

I'm not sure which video in this list most completely destroys you last point there. Personally, I would either vote for "Training with Adam Ondra" or "Efficient Campus Board Training with Adam Ondra". Althought perhaps it isn't fair of me to underestimate "Adam Ondra and a Little Training". I'm considering that "Training with Adam Ondra part 2" is really just part of "Training with Adam Ondra", but you take the view that those are seperate videos. 

Or maybe Ondra doesn't count (for some reason), in which case this other list may help in further destroying the argument. My personnal vote in that case would be "Chris Sharma trained by Patxi Usobiaga".

Or maybe videos are overrated and only meant to sell randoms climbing shits to impressionable gym rats - very fair point. As is plenty obvious when watching "Efficient Campus Board Training with Adam Ondra" (or any other "Training with Adam Ondra" video really), the guy has never actually used a campus board or hangboard and looks very clumsy using it. In this case perhaps this description of how Alex Honnold trains may be better suited at destroying that point.

Of course the skill/physical abilities ratio in climbing is very different that of, say, weight-lifting, to go the other extreme. So of course you probably should be spending proportionally more time climbing than training. But given that the benefits or training, physically, are really big (proportionnaly to baseline) for the first bit of it that you do before getting diminishing returns.... Again it's just silly to consider that 1 or 2 training days a week, for at least part of the year, isn't worth a lot more than the handfull of extra climbs you would have done in that relatively small amount of time you need to invest in it (or the extra few letter grades you might have worked with that energy).

Your second to last point is a non-point. As if training for climbing == being focused on numbers. You do need to keep tracks of what you achieve in training, that's just effective training 101, so I assume by that you meant grades.  As far as I am concerned, it's not really the grade per se that motivates me to train to climb harder. It's just that there is a decent correlation, in my experience climbing thus far, with climbs being enjoyable/great moves/great experiences and them being harder. Climbs I would do all day from 5.8 to 5.12 - but proportionally speaking more in the 11/12 range, and if I had to choose a handfull to be all I can climb for the rest of my life, I think the better ones would tend to be in the higher grades.

That and as climber we all have weaknesses (physical weaknesses) and climber is just a lot more efficient in getting weaker bits up to par than endlessly pulling on crimps.

Tradgic Yogurt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2016 · Points: 55

I expect a gym to make sure caesar.salad climbs with shoes on even if he climbs with top off. Funky slimy holds are not cool, especially if the gym staff just power-washed them when setting.

Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175
Dylan B. wrote:

Tradiban ruined gym climbing for me forever.

Me too, in person

don'tchuffonme · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 26
Tradiban wrote:

Yes, it varies by location a bit.

Also, that chunk that disappears in the summer isn't going climbing they are bike riding, running, etc, something with less commitment involved. 

If I hear "custom training plan" referring to climbing again I'm gonna puke....If I see one more bro writing up how many pull ups they did in their little notebook, I'm gonna puke....If I get stuck behind another meathead "training plan" muggle on Epi, I'm gonna die.

Oh, you're the pukey type.  Makes sense.

Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50
Nicholas Kozlowski wrote:

What do you expect from a climbing "gym" in terms of accommodating schedules?

This is a bit tricky question. Being a full time employee it is impossible to schedule training cycle right. On one hand it is a bad idea to exercise (especially conditioning) in the morning. On the other hand it is a bad idea to condition late night. Personally I schedule my workdays gym sessions 8pm to 10:30pm. It is far from ideal although this is the only option that meets my workday schedule at job. On weekends I have one gym session on Sat at 12pm and another one (fairly light, just climb some random easy routes for fun controlling like perfect moves execution and breathing) on Sun noon. This is the best schedule I can stick to, although "the best" does not imply "good".

Howard · · Costa Mesa, CA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 2,695

I expect no climbing of rocks.  Hence, I always prefer outdoors.

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

I expect a proper gym to be well maintained and clean. Routes are secondary but can be overcome with personal creativity. Most climbers I know use their own beta when outside anyway. Maybe less policying of belay technique and enforcement of dress codes could be helpful. 

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610
Franck Vee wrote:

This is funny.

I'm not sure which video in this list most completely destroys you last point there. Personally, I would either vote for "Training with Adam Ondra" or "Efficient Campus Board Training with Adam Ondra". Althought perhaps it isn't fair of me to underestimate "Adam Ondra and a Little Training". I'm considering that "Training with Adam Ondra part 2" is really just part of "Training with Adam Ondra", but you take the view that those are seperate videos. 

Or maybe Ondra doesn't count (for some reason), in which case this other list may help in further destroying the argument. My personnal vote in that case would be "Chris Sharma trained by Patxi Usobiaga".

Or maybe videos are overrated and only meant to sell randoms climbing shits to impressionable gym rats - very fair point. As is plenty obvious when watching "Efficient Campus Board Training with Adam Ondra" (or any other "Training with Adam Ondra" video really), the guy has never actually used a campus board or hangboard and looks very clumsy using it. In this case perhaps this description of how Alex Honnold trains may be better suited at destroying that point.

Of course the skill/physical abilities ratio in climbing is very different that of, say, weight-lifting, to go the other extreme. So of course you probably should be spending proportionally more time climbing than training. But given that the benefits or training, physically, are really big (proportionnaly to baseline) for the first bit of it that you do before getting diminishing returns.... Again it's just silly to consider that 1 or 2 training days a week, for at least part of the year, isn't worth a lot more than the handfull of extra climbs you would have done in that relatively small amount of time you need to invest in it (or the extra few letter grades you might have worked with that energy).

Your second to last point is a non-point. As if training for climbing == being focused on numbers. You do need to keep tracks of what you achieve in training, that's just effective training 101, so I assume by that you meant grades.  As far as I am concerned, it's not really the grade per se that motivates me to train to climb harder. It's just that there is a decent correlation, in my experience climbing thus far, with climbs being enjoyable/great moves/great experiences and them being harder. Climbs I would do all day from 5.8 to 5.12 - but proportionally speaking more in the 11/12 range, and if I had to choose a handfull to be all I can climb for the rest of my life, I think the better ones would tend to be in the higher grades.

That and as climber we all have weaknesses (physical weaknesses) and climber is just a lot more efficient in getting weaker bits up to par than endlessly pulling on crimps.

TL:DR but from a quick skim, videos are for making money.

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

If you want to climb hard you need to relax more try ASMR.

https://youtu.be/zWTe795zrS0

aikibujin · · Castle Rock, CO · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 300
Tradiban wrote:

I think you miss my point, slightly. I'm not saying training doesn't help, it can, but climbing is so diverse in skills that training is a pointless distraction from what you really need to climb well.

It's the focus on the numbers that I think is useless. The best climbers don't train at all, save for some of the comp climbers out there.

You seem to think "training" and "climbing" are mutually exclusive, but they are not. Anytime I'm in a climbing gym, I'm training. I always have a defined goal that I'm working on while pulling plastic. I'm not in a climbing gym to have fun. When I'm climbing outside, that's when I don't think about "today I'm working endurance", and just have fun.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

why do I have a feeling tradibans gym sucks really bad?

Dean O! · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2018 · Points: 0

Who cares? He can't be bothered to read what people write.

Lena chita · · OH · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,667
Nicholas Kozlowski wrote:


What do you expect from a climbing "gym" in terms of accommodating schedules? Do you prefer gyms that are open early in the day, to get some weights in before work, maybe a yoga class before work? Or do most people look for late nights to go after work, or a longer commute means less climb time? 

What I WANT is a gym that is open early in the day and until at least 10 pm. At the very least, longer weekend hours. I hate the gyms that close at 6pm on Saturday/Sunday, and don't open until 11am.

Some thing like 6 am to 10 pm on weekdays, and 9 am to 7-8 pm on weekends would be nice.

But what I expect from the local gyms is that they will not have such accommodating schedules. :)

Tradiban · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610

Top ten things heard by a gym employee:

10. Why can't I climb for free? I'm from Colorado.

9. There's no traversing routes?!

8. Why do I have to take a belay test? I'm from Colorado.

7.  It's too cold.

6. It's too hot.

5. That is NOT 5.9! It's definitely 5.10a.

4. I hate techno, play some rock.

3. I hate rock, play some techno.

2. But I have always belayed like this and I've never dropped anyone!

1. I'm from Colorado.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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