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Can I stake a mining claim in Indian Creek?

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114
grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:

The access fund should take the money they were going to use to sue the government (waste of time and money), and go buy mining claims. 

Staking claims for mineral rights in IC would be a colossal waste of time and money and provide zero preservation benefits. 

Sure, Kaner or the AF could go stake claims all over IC, pay the filing fees and have a party to celebrate their success in preserving IC for all eternity.  Then the reality of having to hire a landman (or two, it is a large area) to ensure the claims remain in good standing will set in.  SmithVentures Inc and a few others will make some scratch detailing maps and writing reports in an attempt to show work on the claims.

Then one day, Uranus Inc, decides that uranium prices are such that there may be a case to actually mine uranium there. When they’re searching the public filings, they find there is no “discovery” evidence. They file a lawsuit to nullify the Kaner, et al, claims. The judge correctly finds Kaner, et al, has not been acting in good faith regarding the development of resources and nullifies the contested claims. (See Multiple Surface Use Act, 1955, The claimant does not have the right to use an unpatented mining claim for purposes other than prospecting, mining, or processing operations and uses reasonably incident thereto.) In the end Kaner et al, is out several hundred thousand dollars with nothing to show for it.

Jun Kim wrote:

Unlike laws governing petroleum extraction, there are no environmental guidelines specific to hard rock mining, and no requirement to pay a royalty. 

 

This is incorrect.  Hard rock mines in the US typically take over 10 year to permit, and most of that is dedicated to environmental issues and risk mitigation.

Easy Cheese · · eldo · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Re mining claims - we backcountry skied near some "private property" recently that was really some BS mining claim that some folks are using as their own private ski run. (nestled within public land, on a beautiful, picturesque mountain. YOU SHOULDN'T OWN A MOUNTAIN!!! grr! ) Anyway - I say DO IT. Make the whole crag a "mining claim" free for all to use! :) 

grog m · · Saltlakecity · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 70
Jason Todd wrote:

Staking claims for mineral rights in IC would be a colossal waste of time and money and provide zero preservation benefits. 

Sure, Kaner or the AF could go stake claims all over IC, pay the filing fees and have a party to celebrate their success in preserving IC for all eternity.  Then the reality of having to hire a landman (or two, it is a large area) to ensure the claims remain in good standing will set in.  SmithVentures Inc and a few others will make some scratch detailing maps and writing reports in an attempt to show work on the claims.

Then one day, Uranus Inc, decides that uranium prices are such that there may be a case to actually mine uranium there. When they’re searching the public filings, they find there is no “discovery” evidence. They file a lawsuit to nullify the Kaner, et al, claims. The judge correctly finds Kaner, et al, has not been acting in good faith regarding the development of resources and nullifies the contested claims. (See Multiple Surface Use Act, 1955, The claimant does not have the right to use an unpatented mining claim for purposes other than prospecting, mining, or processing operations and uses reasonably incident thereto.) In the end Kaner et al, is out several hundred thousand dollars with nothing to show for it.

This is incorrect.  Hard rock mines in the US typically take over 10 year to permit, and most of that is dedicated to environmental issues and risk mitigation.

This is the information we were looking for. 

Derek Lawrence · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 710
Ammo wrote:

Re mining claims - we backcountry skied near some "private property" recently that was really some BS mining claim that some folks are using as their own private ski run. (nestled within public land, on a beautiful, picturesque mountain. YOU SHOULDN'T OWN A MOUNTAIN!!! grr! ) Anyway - I say DO IT. Make the whole crag a "mining claim" free for all to use! :) 

That would have been a patented mining claim from a while back most likely which is treated as real property.  Different than unpatented claims which are what is being discussed

Easy Cheese · · eldo · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
Derek Lawrence wrote:

That would have been a patented mining claim from a while back most likely which is treated as real property.  Different than unpatented claims which are what is being discussed

That makes sense. Its more that this particular piece of private property makes backcountry skiing this particular mountain a challenge. It feels wrong that people can “own” these sacred places :(

oldfattradguuy kk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 172
Jason Todd wrote:

Staking claims for mineral rights in IC would be a colossal waste of time and money and provide zero preservation benefits. 

Sure, Kaner or the AF could go stake claims all over IC, pay the filing fees and have a party to celebrate their success in preserving IC for all eternity.  Then the reality of having to hire a landman (or two, it is a large area) to ensure the claims remain in good standing will set in.  SmithVentures Inc and a few others will make some scratch detailing maps and writing reports in an attempt to show work on the claims.

Then one day, Uranus Inc, decides that uranium prices are such that there may be a case to actually mine uranium there. When they’re searching the public filings, they find there is no “discovery” evidence. They file a lawsuit to nullify the Kaner, et al, claims. The judge correctly finds Kaner, et al, has not been acting in good faith regarding the development of resources and nullifies the contested claims. (See Multiple Surface Use Act, 1955, The claimant does not have the right to use an unpatented mining claim for purposes other than prospecting, mining, or processing operations and uses reasonably incident thereto.) In the end Kaner et al, is out several hundred thousand dollars with nothing to show for it.

This is incorrect.  Hard rock mines in the US typically take over 10 year to permit, and most of that is dedicated to environmental issues and risk mitigation.

Jason is mostly correct.

As for environmental guidance 43 CFR 3809 does have requirements pertaining to the environment.

In times of the time it takes to permit a mine, it varies and is mostly dependent on NEPA, a recent large mine in NV got through it 3 years, most take longer, many get through faster through an EA vs. EIS process. It depends on the size of the mine and potential impacts.

Many folks want to own a mining claim or mine, it is best to hold of claiming one until you actually have something worth claiming. There is liability attched to Mining activities.

oldfattradguuy kk · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 172
Ammo wrote:

That makes sense. Its more that this particular piece of private property makes backcountry skiing this particular mountain a challenge. It feels wrong that people can “own” these sacred places :(

Once a claim is patented, it becomes real property and includes land ownership and all private property rights apply.  Cardiff Fork in BCC in the Wastach is a prime example. As I stated above the Clinton admin put this on hold in 1994.  A mine operator on unpatented land can keep you out of a mine area for safety reasons.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

Recall that there are over 700 uranium mining claims in the originally designated BENM.

jg fox · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5
Marc801 C wrote:

Recall that there are over 700 uranium mining claims in the originally designated BENM.

And they will remain claims until the price of Uranium doubles.

JF1 · · Idaho · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 400

The federal gov't has previously denied or removed mining claims made in reality for blocking legal processes or for conservation goals.  You need a realistic plan to maintain a claim, and a little money.

Kaner · · Eagle · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 2,260

Apparently nobody (including me) showed up to stake a claim.

jg fox · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5
Kaner wrote:

Apparently nobody (including me) showed up to stake a claim.

Not even prospectors?

ZachS00 · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 15
Sam Feuerborn · · Carbondale · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 810
jg fox · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 5
Sam Feuerborn wrote:

https://medium.com/@groatnotes/instagram-celebrity-should-drop-her-mining-claim-in-bears-ears-ed7fae386bf7

From the article.

By all means do something, just do something that could actually help. Donate your $150 (like I did) to the Navajo-run group Haul No! which is organizing on the Navajo Nation against Energy Fuels. Or go ahead and do some real monkey wrenching. Throw a few mothballs in the gas tank of your neighborhood bulldozer (far more effective than sugar). Or, better yet, take your 50,000 people and march to the U.S. headquarters of Energy Fuels at 225 Union Blvd in Lakewood, Colorado, and stake claim to their lobby. Refuse to leave until the full Bears Ears National Monument is restored. After all, they appear to have a direct line to Zinke.

I'm tempted to do so but might as well donate to Access Fund incase they blow through the war chest and lose the case at least they have money left to protect other areas.

trailridge · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 20

A mining claim is just not reasonable in that region nor is oil and gas.  The real source of income is exploiting the tremendous amount of climbers in the area.  A hotel that is nice yet makes the average climber feel like it is wilderness. Organic coffee is a must. Patagonia shirts in the gift shop.  Climbers have really saved that place. It is hard to imagine what it would look like if climbers didn't save Indian creek from becoming too exploited 

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 889
trailridge wrote:

A mining claim is just not reasonable in that region nor is oil and gas.  The real source of income is exploiting the tremendous amount of climbers in the area.  A hotel that is nice yet makes the average climber feel like it is wilderness. Organic coffee is a must. Patagonia shirts in the gift shop.  Climbers have really saved that place. It is hard to imagine what it would look like if climbers didn't save Indian creek from becoming too exploited 

Can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

Michael Sammartino · · Eagle, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 0

I would gladly contribute some time and money for this. I'm entering law school to study public lands administration and natural resource law, so this would be an interesting project to be a part of! My time here inspired me to go back to school so this would be a rad thing to undertake. 

Cole Darby · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 166

I drink your climbing milkshake

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern Utah Deserts
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