Getting Sued

El Gato wrote:

Jeff Lowe was sued by a asian family when their loved one died in a clinic at the Ouray Ice Festival. Not sure of that case/outcome.

As I understand it the case was settled out of court on confidential terms, See https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/zmk45qd/colorado-district-court/ro-v-san-juan-mtn-guides-et-al.

Mason Stone wrote:

More info. You teach someone how to climb. Pro bono. They go off on their own. Do something dumb, break leg or get killed. This may be an ethical question more than a moral question but, who is responsible?

I know it might depend but lets say Yoda taught me how to tie in, fig 8, I tied in, first recorded fig 8 slip in history happens to me and I break leg. I would think that's on me but in a litigious society peers may try to sue Yoda. What saith the community?

This question is one I have not heard of but something I am considering from an Aviation perspective. I know apples and oranges, but when a pilot gets killed family often sues, instructor, mechanics or airplane manufacturers.

I know everyone’s trying to have a serious conversation here, but if you fucked up a figure 8 after being taught by the Jedi master you shouldn’t be climbing. Period. 

AndrewArroz wrote:

Any smart insurance company risk manager looks at the situation and determines that in court it's going to be established that the guide was working for the guide service that has a policy with said insurance company. They're not going to fuck around trying to cling to a paper-thin excuse that the guide was somehow not employed by their client.

I suppose it depends on the specifics of the policy, but could the insurance company just leave the guide service out to dry (if they were violating labor law and likely not truthful about the number of actual employees to be insured)?

Derek DeBruin wrote:

I suppose it depends on the specifics of the policy, but could the insurance company just leave the guide service out to dry (if they were violating labor law and likely not truthful about the number of actual employees to be insured)?

They could try. But that would most likely just become the subject of litigation between those parties. Insurance companies don't really make their money picking nits with their customers. 

AndrewArroz wrote:

They could try. But that would most likely just become the subject of litigation between those parties. Insurance companies don't really make their money picking nits with their customers. 

Got it. Appreciate you entertaining this tangent.

Unless it's a clear case of gross negligence the outcome of litigation is more about lawyer's Jiu-Jitsu, money, and the personalities of the characters involved.

These things rarely go to court and "justice" is rarely served. If someone sueing can scare you or the insurance company enough you are going to settle out of court.

The whole thing is a business made to make people money, if you don't think about it in that way, you lose.

Tradiban wrote:

Unless it's a clear case of gross negligence the outcome of litigation is more about lawyer's Jiu-Jitsu, money, and the personalities of the characters involved.

These things rarely go to court and "justice" is rarely served. If someone sueing can scare you or the insurance company enough you are going to settle out of court.

The whole thing is a business made to make people money, if you don't think about it in that way, you lose.

This is true. Recently someone I care about was in a car accident with shared fault. A few weeks later a lawyer appeared out of the blue demanding to know my friend's insurance coverage limits and some other personal info that was obviously intended to sniff out estimated net worth. My friend's instinct was to share the insurance coverage info with the other side. I advised the opposite: Make them guess if you have coverage over the state-mandated limits. That's what they did and, surprise, the threatened lawsuit just vanished.