Mad Rock Lifeguard for Lead Belay

His belay biner doesn't lock on his belay loop...why would anyone possibly ever use that carabiner for belaying (or really anything else)?

ClimbingOn wrote:

His belay biner doesn't lock on his belay loop...why would anyone possibly ever use that carabiner for belaying (or really anything else)?

The other (locking) side appears to lock both sides of the carabiner.

To get the lifeguard to feed slack quickly you have to hold it just like a grigri, they are extremely similar devices.  I'd recommend trying a megajul but keep in mind like any of these things, it takes a bit of practice before it feels smooth.

If you feed out in the standard GriGri thumb on lever method, Lifeguard has an exposed bottom which means when you feed out the rope runs against your palm. Super weird for me at first but just takes a bit adjusting in hand posture then it’s basically a lighter, sexier, cheaper GriGri1. The GriGri2 also has a small cam assembly in the lever to make the lowering sweet spot larger which is nice for unequal weighted partners which the Lifeguard is lacking I believe. 

David Kerkeslager wrote:

Does this feed slack as quickly as the videos show?

Yes, it does. It's a great device.

Contra the above posts, there is no need to override the cam on the Lifeguard.

Noah Yetter wrote:

Yes, it does. It's a great device.

Contra the above posts, there is no need to override the cam on the Lifeguard.

What ropes have you used it on?

David Kerkeslager wrote:

What ropes have you used it on?

Sterling 10.1 gym ropes: this is the only rope it feels a little "grabby" on, but still better than a Grigri2

Trango Lotus 9.9: my own gym rope, this sees the most use, almost never locks when I don't want it to

Sterling Marathon Pro Dry 10.1: thoroughly abused cragging rope, feels slimmer than the Trango, never locks when I don't want it to

Edelweiss Energy(?) Dry 9.5: (not a huge fan of this rope btw) never locks when I don't want it to, actually slips a little when it is locked

Mammut Infinity Classic 9.5: never locks when I don't want it to

If you really don't like the GRI GRI for lead and you like the Jul 2 or pilot...why not just use a Jul 2??

Honestly the Jul 2 is amazing for lead...it get past the feeding issues of both ATC and grigri style devices...

I use my Jul 2 for lead. My grigri 1 or Jul 2 for TR. A double tuber for cleaning/rappel. Grigri for access rappel (aka fixed rope etc). 

I like the Lifeguard much more than I do the Grigri. Rope 10mm and up does not feed as smoothly as I'd like, but still better than with the Grigri.

The Trango Vergo was awesome for feeding and it locked instantly in a fall (the Lifeguard can take a second to catch). It's too bad that the product turned into such a fiasco. If Trango ever gets that thing right and long-term reviews back it up, I'll probably get another one.

Lifeguard is definitely better than the Gri for feeding quickly.  Small ropes you can feed quite fast as long as you have the technique of keeping the brake strand parallel to the climber strand and feed it at the same rate as you are pulling up.  For bigger ropes it's not too hard to use your index, middle and ring fingers underneath to cradle the device while overriding the cam with your thumb.  As with the gri though don't become complacent with that technique and constantly keep your thumb there.  I might make a quick video real quick if you want to see how it handles on one of my 9.8 ropes.

Lifeguard is very well built, all metal construction. Normal lead rope works well, gym lead rope is not that great. Works better with both than GriGri2. 

Trango Vergo is favorite for lead belaying, works very well with both shit ropes, and good ones. I hear Trango updated Vergo, doing final testing. Hopefully, they are not going to pull it off the market. 

ClimbingOn wrote:

His belay biner doesn't lock on his belay loop...why would anyone possibly ever use that carabiner for belaying (or really anything else)?

Did you even watch the video?  He actually checks that the lower gate is locked by the upper gate.......

amarius wrote:

Lifeguard is very well built, all metal construction. Normal lead rope works well, gym lead rope is not that great. Works better with both than GriGri2. 

Trango Vergo is favorite for lead belaying, works very well with both shit ropes, and good ones. I hear Trango updated Vergo, doing final testing. Hopefully, they are not going to pull it off the market. 

Didn't the vergo have a big recall earlier this year?

Christopher Smith wrote:

Didn't the vergo have a big recall earlier this year?

Unfortunately, yes, twice.

@OP there is gonna be some personal preference for a "sweet spot" of device + rope thickness = easy feeding that is counterbalanced by Easy Feeding - reliability of braking assist = safe device that no one can answer until that severe fall comes their way. It may be a Faustian bargain to gain easy feeding when someone decks/ledges because the braking took longer than expected.

I prefer greatly to have to use a thumb to depress a Gri-Gri (a la Petzl instruction) to gain the benefit of more reliable braking. Reports above that the Lifeguard slips a little before catching make me more worried that you could get in trouble with it in a severe fall.

Likewise, the Megajul (and all tube devices) slip a lot in severe falls and most users have no clue about this possibility and are woefully prepared...I use them for rapping double ropes only or to save weight on Alpine moderates.

There is a reason the Gri-Gri remains the most popular choice.

what's the name of that carabiner?

kck wrote:

what's the name of that carabiner?

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112017518/crazy-mad-rock-gemini-double-biner

Dude, its not that hard...

King Tut wrote:

@OP there is gonna be some personal preference for a "sweet spot" of device + rope thickness = easy feeding that is counterbalanced by Easy Feeding - reliability of braking assist = safe device that no one can answer until that severe fall comes their way. It may be a Faustian bargain to gain easy feeding when someone decks/ledges because the braking took longer than expected.

I prefer greatly to have to use a thumb to depress a Gri-Gri (a la Petzl instruction) to gain the benefit of more reliable braking. Reports above that the Lifeguard slips a little before catching make me more worried that you could get in trouble with it in a severe fall.

Likewise, the Megajul (and all tube devices) slip a lot in severe falls and most users have no clue about this possibility and are woefully prepared...I use them for rapping double ropes only or to save weight on Alpine moderates.

There is a reason the Gri-Gri remains the most popular choice.

If it's slipping alot when someone is falling that means the belayer is not doing his/her job right and keeping a hand on the brake strand.  Barring your belayer getting knocked out, this should not be an issue.

Christopher Smith wrote:

If it's slipping alot when someone is falling that means the belayer is not doing his/her job right and keeping a hand on the brake strand.  Barring your belayer getting knocked out, this should not be an issue.

It is an issue because belays fail regardless of belayer's brake hands in numerous devices if the fall factor is high enough. See "the deadly ATC" et al info. All devices have some slip, some more dangerous than others.

King Tut wrote:

I prefer greatly to have to use a thumb to depress a Gri-Gri (a la Petzl instruction) to gain the benefit of more reliable braking.

Is the GriGri's braking more reliable when you're using your thumb to depress the cam?

Reports above that the Lifeguard slips a little before catching make me more worried that you could get in trouble with it in a severe fall.

1. That's not a reliability problem. Reliability would be if it didn't catch. Like, for example, if you had to depress the cam constantly and therefore couldn't rely on your device to catch.
2. This indicates the Lifeguard holds nearly twice the force of the GriGri.
3. This reviewer claims the Lifeguard catches faster than the GriGri.
4. Depending on application, slippage may not even be a bad thing, as it gives a softer catch and reduces forces on gear. Other devices (the Camp Matik) intentionally add some slip and market as such. I'm not saying that I want more slip necessarily, but leveling this as a criticism against the Lifeguard doesn't make a ton of sense.

There is a reason the Gri-Gri remains the most popular choice.

True, but I have yet to see any reason to believe that reason isn't just first to market advantage.