I Can’t Even Afford a Dead Bird Notebook

Jon Frisby wrote:

for a specific body shape, their jackets fit so much better than anyone else I've tried. I've tried on everything majorly commercially available in the US and Germany

Agreed, Arcteryx's jacket game is on point.

I am waiting for the 5k version to come out. 1k just makes me look cheap if I am seen walking around with one.

Briggs Lazalde wrote:

If you're blowing out XXL size gear that's a you problem not a manufacture problem

No blowing over here. Just tight in the shoulders. Maybe from where you’re at?

20 kN wrote:

I even took some of the pants, coats and shoes from the store to the ArcTeryx, Mammut and North Face store right next door (they let me take the gear with a deposit), and compared the products side-by-side. The difference in quality was minimal, but the difference in price was astronomical. It was a real eye opener into how much of a mark-up there is on western clothing items and how cheaply quality clothing products can be had for under the right circumstances.

I'm not arguing your point (I have no experence with the pricier brands), but just by visually comparing them side by side can you determine how long long they will last? Or how well they breathe? 

Mountain Rookie wrote:

I'm not arguing your point (I have no experence with the pricier brands), but just by visually comparing them side by side can you determine how long long they will last? Or how well they breathe? 

I might not be able to compare every measurable metric just by looking at the items but it's not exactly hard to compare general clothing quality when you have two items side-by-side and you try them on. I can determine enough to know that the differences between the two products are small and any differences that exist certainly dont warrant the massive price hike.

I remember when numerous Arc’teryx reps told me they would never make a down jacket because they only develop a product if they feel it’s a leap above other companies offerings.  Now they offer a ton of them and imo are not any better than rab, montane, hardwear or montbell-but way more $$.  

Arc’teryx is great-have two dozen pieces from them or so-some I’ll never sell such as my bora pack, arrakis pack,,certain gamma jackets, their fully seam taped gloves are remarkable. Some of their gear is definitely the best but   It definitely appears at this point feedback from customers demanded a down jacket-and the company responded to earn a coin.  Don’t blame them-but there down jackets aren’t any better than any others.   

They definitely can’t state their down jackets are better than feathered friends for example and can’t state they’ve done a leap above what others have offered.  

As psyched as I would be to get a gore tex jacket for $70, you have to think about it from more than just a great deal perspective. Even with economies of scale kicking in, I’d expect the materials alone to cost $50. At the $70 price point I’m confident you’re either supporting slave labor or it’s not gore Tex. Not saying I support the crazy dead bird prices, a lot of what we use is pretty specialized and their is a lower limit to what that costs. 

Matt Stroebel wrote:

As psyched as I would be to get a gore tex jacket for $70, you have to think about it from more than just a great deal perspective. Even with economies of scale kicking in, I’d expect the materials alone to cost $50. At the $70 price point I’m confident you’re either supporting slave labor or it’s not gore Tex. Not saying I support the crazy dead bird prices, a lot of what we use is pretty specialized and their is a lower limit to what that costs. 

Good point. Look at this gore-tex jacket for 52$: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Spring-and-Autumn-outdoor-hiking-jacket-Tactical-climbing-Waterproof-man-jacket-Gore-tex-jacket-men-waterproof/32829615340.html I've ordered 100% cotton shirts from one of these sites, they had "100% cotton" on their tag, and they were 100% polyester, I could melt them with a lighter...

Matt Stroebel wrote:

As psyched as I would be to get a gore tex jacket for $70, you have to think about it from more than just a great deal perspective. Even with economies of scale kicking in, I’d expect the materials alone to cost $50. At the $70 price point I’m confident you’re either supporting slave labor or it’s not gore Tex. Not saying I support the crazy dead bird prices, a lot of what we use is pretty specialized and their is a lower limit to what that costs. 

The issue with name brands hiking up prices is not just in final products.  There are other companies that make water-proof-breathable fabric besides DuPont, but only DuPont can call it Gore-Tex.  Some of the outdoor gear companies have their own names for certain fabrics that are just remakes of something like Gore-Tex.
He said he was in Korea, I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to get an off-brand fabric for much cheaper from China.

Brady3 wrote:

The issue with name brands hiking up prices is not just in final products.  There are other companies that make water-proof-breathable fabric besides DuPont, but only DuPont can call it Gore-Tex.  Some of the outdoor gear companies have their own names for certain fabrics that are just remakes of something like Gore-Tex.
He said he was in Korea, I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to get an off-brand fabric for much cheaper from China.

Dupont doesn't make Gore-Tex... 

Matt Stroebel wrote:

As psyched as I would be to get a gore tex jacket for $70, you have to think about it from more than just a great deal perspective. Even with economies of scale kicking in, I’d expect the materials alone to cost $50. At the $70 price point I’m confident you’re either supporting slave labor or it’s not gore Tex. Not saying I support the crazy dead bird prices, a lot of what we use is pretty specialized and their is a lower limit to what that costs. 

I wonder if that $50 jacket would be the same jacket in North America but with margin added by multiple middlemen (distribution, warehousing, shipping) so no matter what when you buy clothing you're supporting slave labor.  

Yeah! Dead bird sucks! They tricked me into spending $8000 on a $50 jacket! It's their fault!

20 kN wrote:

I might not be able to compare every measurable metric just by looking at the items but it's not exactly hard to compare general clothing quality when you have two items side-by-side and you try them on. I can determine enough to know that the differences between the two products are small and any differences that exist certainly dont warrant the massive price hike.

20kn you talked about comparing 3 brands that all are at a similar price point in their top end, why do you expect to see a huge difference in quality from the brand? The only i have found you get at the high end gore tex jackets is design in which IMO mountain equipment and arc'teryx reign as kings.

Matt Stroebel wrote:

As psyched as I would be to get a gore tex jacket for $70, you have to think about it from more than just a great deal perspective. Even with economies of scale kicking in, I’d expect the materials alone to cost $50. At the $70 price point I’m confident you’re either supporting slave labor or it’s not gore Tex. Not saying I support the crazy dead bird prices, a lot of what we use is pretty specialized and their is a lower limit to what that costs. 

It was $70 because it was an XL in orange in the middle of the summer so it was on clearance. Normally it would probably be $400, but I found that a lot of companies offered off season goods on deep discount. Buying winter clothes in the summer or spring can go a long way to saving money.

Speaking of Arcteryx prices, I always enjoyed BearBreeder’s posts that he bought a $600 jacket for $12 at the Vancouver factory store. That should give you some idea of margin.

That's probably what they charge the US govt to make them...

Their garmets are great and they fit a slim person really well.  I have several pieces of their outerwear and I love everyone of them.  So much that I never touch some of my other nice jackets.  With that being said, I will never pay full retail price for their stuff.  If you're patient good deals pop up somewhat frequently.  Like end of season sales, or most recently REI had 30% coupon.  That's the time to buy quality stuff.  Honestly, that applies to all of the higher end brands.  Full retail is the biggest scam...

Jordan W wrote:

Dupont doesn't make Gore-Tex... 

Sorry, it was made by a former DuPont employee using Teflon (which was made by DuPont).

20 kN wrote:

It was $70 because it was an XL in orange in the middle of the summer so it was on clearance. Normally it would probably be $400, but I found that a lot of companies offered off season goods on deep discount. Buying winter clothes in the summer or spring can go a long way to saving money.

No doubt, that’s a great tactic that I use as well, I’m all about looking for a great deal too. I neglected the third option which is that they can sell you something at loss, which might be what happened here and in the case of the $12 one.The point wasn’t to accuse you of supporting slave labor, just that the price can only get so low when we start talking about sustainable business models for technical gear.