top rope solo rescue

I think the larger issue is that if you become unconscious while hanging from your TR solo setup, you are very likely alone, so any rescue will be dependent on a passerby coming across you.  Depending on the traffic at your local spot, you could die of suspension trauma before anyone notices you.  Really, you don't want to get knocked unconscious while climbing alone, TR solo or otherwise, because it will probably be bad.  Your setup sounds good as it is; I don't think there's any need to make it more complex.  

Chris Andrew wrote:

I am wondering if there is a way to tie off up top so that it is two strands but removing a knot easily turns it into a rapel situation where someone could be easily lowered down from the ground.  

The Stone Knot might be possible to release under load, but I haven't tried it.

The standard releasable-under load knot is Munter-Mule.  For your scernario, you'd have to tie one on each side, and probably leave enough slack above to tie a fig 8 backup on each side.

Either way, watch out for the possibility of specific spots on the rope (near the carabiner) rubbing against rock.  Also, the probability of something going wrong with unusual knots is probably higher than the combined probability of (1) you falling unsonscious on TR and (2) the rescuer not having their own rope.

Chris Andrew wrote:

I am thinking of buying some sort of hand ascender.  Worse case scenario I think of, you fall off an overhanging face and you are swinging free and lets say you injure something related to an arm or a leg. you still have three other appendages to rig up a sling by your foot to step up with, and a hand ascender to pull up with.  

Any suggestions  

You're TR soloing, right? So you already have at least one progress capture device with you. You only need a 4 ft sling on the rope above this to ascend. Just step in the sling and step up; your minitrax/microcender/Petzl Basic/whatever holds you as you then advance the sling and repeat.  Super, super easy.

Chris Andrew wrote:

But the question becomes how would someone rescue me should I become unconscious because you do not have a rappel scenario setup.  I essentially had two fixed lines since there was a figure 8 up top in the anchor.  

Ignoring the fact that you can rap two fixed lines any time you want with no issue, keep in mind that if you're incapacitated and hanging on the lines, no one can rappel on those lines no matter what the finishing knot on the anchor point is. Any rescuer is going to check your anchor and then attach their own rope to your anchor point if the anchor is sound. Barring that, they can always down-aid/down-jug the fixed line to you with prussiks and slings should they have no other gear and feel like your condition warrant the additional risk of such an act. 

kevin deweese wrote:

Ignoring the fact that you can rap two fixed lines any time you want with no issue, keep in mind that if you're incapacitated and hanging on the lines, no one can rappel on those lines no matter what the finishing knot on the anchor point is. Any rescuer is going to check your anchor and then attach their own rope to your anchor point if the anchor is sound. Barring that, they can always down-aid/down-jug the fixed line to you with prussiks and slings should they have no other gear and feel like your condition warrant the additional risk of such an act. 

The way most folks run their backup device on a second rope, an incapacitated climber would really only be weighting one strand. Topside rescuer raps the unloaded strand. Yea, it might be a tight fit, but it's not under tension.

Gunkiemike wrote:

The way most folks run their backup device on a second rope, an incapacitated climber would really only be weighting one strand. Topside rescuer raps the unloaded strand. Yea, it might be a tight fit, but it's not under tension.

This is how it usually works. I use a rescucender clipped directly to my belay loop, and then a grigri attached to a 1ft sling girth hitched to my belay loop. These are both attached to separate strands figure 8'd to the anchor at the halfway point. The rescucender is a little more responsive to upward movement than the grigri, and so if I were to go unconscious, there's about a foot of slack in the other line to attach a rappel device to up top.

But yeah, I think you're finding a solution to something that isn't really a problem. TR solo is about the safest climbing you can do, save for rockfall and teenagers throwing shit. Wear your helmet!

Why are you all of a sudden going unconscious?  

Gunkiemike wrote:

The way most folks run their backup device on a second rope, an incapacitated climber would really only be weighting one strand. Topside rescuer raps the unloaded strand. Yea, it might be a tight fit, but it's not under tension.

I was addressing the OP's hypothetical setup. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Why are you all of a sudden going unconscious?  

It's because of all the drugs he's taking to deal with the runout obviously.

Rig your two parallel self belay lines through a single munter mule on a large HMS. You will need a rope more than 4x the height of the cliff for a successful lower. Tie a large knot, ie double bight figure 8, at the mid point to prevent the rope from being completely lowered through the munter. Dog off the mule and climb to your hearts content. 

In the event of rescue, some one might elect to use your lower off system. If it's your local fire service, I doubt they will use it.

Chris,

I noticed that you said you were climbing in Massachusetts. Would it be at Crow Hill by any chance?

The only issue I see as a problem is if you were hanging way out in space on an overhanging wall, like some areas of Crow Hill. In my opinion, it would be mighty hard to switch over to a rappel

setup; unless as some have mentioned, you have at least a sling, to step in, to un-weight the rope, while switching over to rappel. It is a real pain, if the rope is spinning you around, which can occur sometimes, on an overhanging wall. Obviously, this would go easier if your in great shape. 

Chris Andrew wrote:

I read up on top rope solo for a while, decided to purchase a microtraxion and rescuecender based on others rec's.  Went out this weekend and practiced it and it worked remarkably well.  Once I got it down I was very confident in the setup.  I am not doing anything that I cannot already climb  but if I decided to work on harder routes this got me thinking.  And some good points were brought up by my friend.

What I did was hike up to the top and setup an equalizing anchor so I could swing a little left and right and make a few diff routes out of the same anchor.  Then I split the rope in the center and tied that off into a knot and attached it to the locking biners on the anchor points.  My thought at the time was put the microtraxion on one rope and the rescuecender on the other.  I figured that would be twice as safe.  If one device failed it is not going to slide down and crash into the other device on the same rope.  Also you essentially have two ropes in the unlikely event of catastrophic rope failure.  If one side ever failed you still have the other since it is not going to come apart at the anchor at the top.  

But the question becomes how would someone rescue me should I become unconscious because you do not have a rappel scenario setup.  I essentially had two fixed lines since there was a figure 8 up top in the anchor.  

The rescuer can go up the rope the same way you did (with ascenders/progress capture pulleys) or using assisted-braking belay devices or use Prusiks on your fixed lines. Additionally, if they're at the top they could use descenders/Prusiks.

I could get rid of the anchor up top and run it up and through like a normal top rope belay.  But that seems dangerous because if I am climbing and weight the rope at the bottom , and have both devices on separate sides of the rope moving up, and I fall and for some reason one does not work, now the rope can come through the belay at the top and unravel.

Agreed, this is a bad idea. With this system, instead of your devices each being a backup, your devices are each a liability.

The only way I can see is to but both devices on the same side, and then I need to anchor the other side of the rope at the bottom of the climb somehow, just like a normal belay partner.  Then if something happened someone could come along and lower me off by grabbing the bottom of the rope

This also doesn't seem great: with this system there are two anchors (one at the base of the climb and one at the top) so you've doubled the probability of an anchor failing.

Am I missing something obvious or is this a risk associated with top rope soloing

Yes, it's a risk, but I think it's not nearly as big of a concern as you're making it out to be. Yes, a tensioned fixed line isn't the absolute most convenient thing for a would-be rescuer, but it still leaves lots of easy rescue options. It's better than not having a line at all, for example.

The solutions you're proposing to this "problem" are worse than the problem itself as they introduce more potential areas for failure. Ideally, you don't end up unconsious in the first place, and these ideas are increasing the chances of that.

As most everyone has replied already, go with your initial set up, that is safest for you and still leaves multiple options for any bystanding climber turned would-be rescuer(if this is any sort of organized rescue effort, F.D. or SAR for example, they are 100% going to rig their own ropes to get down to you).

The benefit of having 2 lines with one ascender on each like you have indicated you will is that you have that 2 rope redundancy should one of your ropes wear through on a rough edge which is admittedly unlikely unless you are jugging up on them a lot(or maybe bouncing a lot on rappel), but the stretch in dynamic rope will exacerbate any rubbing over a sharp edge as it is loaded and unloaded so having that back up rope is never going to hurt.

Your system is exactly what I run for TR solo other than a different device in place of the Rescuescender.  I use a bunny ears figure 8 on a bight so there is even a redundant loop to clip to the anchor which is overkill but just so easy to do that I see no reason knot too(horrible pun intended).

Jesse Coonce wrote:

Your system is exactly what I run for TR solo other than a different device in place of the Rescuescender.  I use a bunny ears figure 8 on a bight so there is even a redundant loop to clip to the anchor which is overkill but just so easy to do that I see no reason knot too(horrible pun intended).

Random aside, since I use basically the same system too:

If I'm on an anchor that has rap rings, I set up my anchor on the rap rings using a stone knot to isolate the strands. The advantage is that when I'm done climbing I can just remove the carabiner, and I have a rope set up to rappel down.