Crag access denied due to dog... ideas?!

based on true events?

Lena chita wrote:

Unpleasant situation, and I'm sorry you had to hike in and turn around.

I honestly don't know that you had any other option. If you are not the kind of person who can kick the dog, or go into a confrontational mode and yell at the dog owner, if you are somewhat afraid of dogs, and you have your kid there to consider, also, there isn't much else you could do, other than walk away.

smurray47 does have a point though. I personally don't have a dog, but quite a few of climbers around me do. And I have seen absolutely calm and nice crag dogs act territorial and start barking or growling at someone walking up the trail. ESPECIALLY is they are on leash, and are sort of "guarding" the spot that they consider theirs. Normally they only do it when someone just walks up the trail, and then they stop, though some bark and growl more than others. And usually people who walk up the trail walk right up to that dog, say something in a soothing tone of voice, say hello to the dog owner, and the dog looks like it has done it's "duty" to protect the territory, and this new person is now an accepted member of this territory, and doesn't merit barking-at anymore.

But of course if you are not comfortable with the dogs, that initial barking can be quite a jolt, and if the dog sees that you stopped and aren't coming in, then the barking is working to protect the territory from you, the intruder! And should be continued!

An you can't really force confidence, and dogs totally do sense your hesitation... my daughter loves dogs and is very comfortable with them. My son has always been hesitant around dogs. And dogs always seem to bark and growl at him more, while they are all too happy to slobber her with dog kisses and to get petted by her.

So it all comes back to, I think you did what a reasonable "non-dog" person in your situation would have done, and I'm sorry you had this experience.

Lena, this is one of the best comments on here and what I wanted to bring up.  It's called leash reactivity. The irony being that my dog actually becomes more aggressive when she's on the leash for this reason.  We've come a long way in training to the point that she barks very rarely, but every once in a while she gets upset for some reason that is unknown and perhaps unknowable to me.  

I understand people's frustration, but I also think that the cavalier bravado displayed here regarding striking other peoples' dogs is not necessarily justifiable. Of course, it depends on the situation.  I myself have kneed a dog that raised up on me in what I perceived to be an aggressive fashion, but the maliciousness of some of these comments, which goes beyond the point of getting the dog away from you, is disconcerting.

On top of that, it's probably compounding the problem.  So, while you may have saved yourself some worry, you've made the problem worse for the next person who's afraid of dogs down the road because physical reprimands against dogs can have the effect of exacerbating the concern of the dog.  While some dogs will respond to negative feedback, positive feedback is the more generally accepted training method.  Now, I get that this is really the responsibility of the dog owner and not you.  It's their job to train their dog, but you're making it a whole lot more difficult.  

FY wrote:

When I had a dog I brought him with me to the crags all the time, but I thought he was very sociable and well-behaved, because I know fluffy really likes people and would never hurt anyone. You’re the first person he ever didn’t like. I’m so sorry, I just don’t know what’s wrong with him today. I’m so sorry he but your face. 

Says everyone who owns a dog.

Price of freedom. If you don't like it you're a commie. 

Tiers of Zion is a pile, maybe they did you a favor by spurring you to go climb somewhere better.  

Ian F. wrote:

Dogs just need to stay at home.  Simple as that.   I will take my dog when I know I will be in a fairly secluded area.   Even then I am very aware of the surroundings.  If I hear people coming or other dogs I immediately make sure mine is close by and maintained.   I do not assume everything will be fine if I let her go free.   Had too many other crag dogs lash out, to assume people actually have friendly dogs.  Leave the fuckers at home.  99% of the time they just are a pain in the ass to have in  crowded areas.  I don't need the added stress.

Well, I (and probably most other dog owners) happen to not think my dog is a "fucker," a "pain in the ass," or just "added stress."  I do happen to think my dog is my friend who deserves a rich life experience.  I agree that may not involve cragging, but it certainly isn't relegated to sitting in the back yard, especially if I am away for long periods of time.  If the dog is well-trained, spending a day by the cliff can be no different than spending it in the yard or going for a walk down city streets.

Forrest Carver wrote:

Rub a yellow flower petal onto a piece of meat and throw it to the dog

I thought that only worked on piranha poodles.

That said, if your "fur baby" is ever perceived by another human as threatening, you should make sure that it never happens again.  I am tired of entitled dog owners who insist that the furiously barking creature with its hackles raised is "friendly."

"Don't worry she's friendly."

If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard a dog owner say that..........

Christopher Smith wrote:

"Don't worry she's friendly."

If I had a dollar for everytime I've heard a dog owner say that..........

Often followed by "Gee, she's never done that before!"

Anybody advocating shooting anybody in this situation is a bed wetter. Just keep on trucking, maybe boot the pooch in the snout at the end of its tether to soften up resistance.

It really seems like the only reasonable option you have is to shoot it.  Good Luck

Couple things i want to point out. Beating a dog that is leashed with atick rock foot or anything is cruelty to animals and if i see a climber do this to any dog i would be filing a police report against that person. Also..if anyone ever sprays a leashed dog with pepper spray in my immediate vicinity i will kick the shit out of said person. Dogs can be assholes but this message thread shows very clearly that some climbers can be complete dipshits

2beanally4u wrote:

Couple things i want to point out. Beating a dog that is leashed with atick rock foot or anything is cruelty to animals and if i see a climber do this to any dog i would be filing a police report against that person. Also..if anyone ever sprays a leashed dog with pepper spray in my immediate vicinity i will kick the shit out of said person. Dogs can be assholes but this message thread shows very clearly that some climbers can be complete dipshits

Its been established that attacking someones dog is grounds for starting a fight. And many people would absolutely fight you over your undertrained dog because YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

El Duderino wrote:

Well, I (and probably most other dog owners) happen to not think my dog is a "fucker," a "pain in the ass," or just "added stress."  I do happen to think my dog is my friend who deserves a rich life experience.  I agree that may not involve cragging, but it certainly isn't relegated to sitting in the back yard, especially if I am away for long periods of time.  If the dog is well-trained, spending a day by the cliff can be no different than spending it in the yard or going for a walk down city streets.

Yeah... this is the same entitled douchery that is the root of all these issues with dogs at the crag.  Yeah, your dog's not a pain in the ass to you... so it can't possibly be a pain in anyone else's ass.   "Oh, well my dog is fine if we go to some place that's not busy", but you can't ever guarantee you'll have the crag to yourself.  

You're right, your dog does deserve a rich life experience, but not at someone else's expense, so take it on a hike or to a dog park.  A dog being "well trained" is very subjective, and EVERY dog owner thinks their dog is trained much better than it actually is.   I know, it's shocking, but your dog is not as well trained as you think it is...

Pull a gun on my dog and wake up dead

2beanally4u wrote:

Pull a gun on my dog and wake up dead

Let your dog run at me aggressively barking, and watch it get kicked in the face.  

Why does everyone have guns and why does everyone want to shoot dogs and people?

If you tie your dog to a tree, like it's a fucking goat from Jurassic Park, and go climb multi-pitch routes... you're a total fuck-hole.  I honestly think the best thing to do in this situation is to approach the dog with a treat, gain it's trust, and let it off the leash.  If it stays and waits for the owner, great.  If it runs away, tough shit.  Either way, leaving a dog tied to a tree in the woods is abuse.  

Regarding the OP's situation, probably best to just do what the OP did if the dog was too aggressive for him to let it off the leash.  Though I think I would have also thrown the dog owner's pack off the cliff, if I were able to get to it, but that's just me being a passive-aggressive ass-hat.  

Carrying a small can of dog mace works wonders.

Beean wrote:

Why does everyone have guns and why does everyone want to shoot dogs and people?

Good ol' US of A!  It's our affinity for guns that allowed us to gain our independence from the British almost 100 years before you Canadians.

Honestly, I think most of the gun references in this thread are kind of off the cuff comments.  While I'm sure most of them would like to shoot the dog in this situation, I'm sure none of them actually would.  Mainly because it would be illegal to shoot a leashed dog that you could just as easily walk away from, and no responsible gun owner wants to deal with that mess... you'd lose your concealed carry permit!