What/where to look for avalanche danger for ice climbers in colorado

I've been ice climbing for a couple years now, but am starting to get more involved, and I'm not entire sure what to look out for when it comes to avalanche danger. Especially with all this talk of alpinists dying lately, what are some common things to look for/advise on where to go for a better understanding.  

Alex, look into taking an AIARE class. This is pretty standard procedure for backcountry skiing and from what i hear alpine climbing too. 

The classes can be kind of expensive but they are PACKED with information and it is well worth the investment if you're going to venture into avy territory at all. 

edited to add: there are generally some really good intro/avalanche awareness classes offered for free around the front range (friends of Berthoud pass) and those can give you an idea if you think you want to commit to the sport and invest in the more expensive class. good luck!

In addition to a training course, use the CAIC avalanche forecast along with the knowledge of which climbs are in avalanche prone territory (usually obtainable from guide books or route descriptions).  Some climbs are very low risk even when the avy danger is high. When in doubt - DON'T GO!

Hey Alex,

Wed. Nov 15th 6-8pm free FOBP Avy Awareness classroom session at Bent Gate.

Alex Remko wrote:

I've been ice climbing for a couple years now, but am starting to get more involved, and I'm not entire sure what to look out for when it comes to avalanche danger. Especially with all this talk of alpinists dying lately, what are some common things to look for/advise on where to go for a better understanding.  

You’re so fucked

this has got to be a troll

Take an intro course and read "Staying Alive In Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper. The next step is to engage the brain which is where most stop. 

I'm blown away by how many people around here post on FB asking "Is X route in avy terrain, how's the risk?" Look at a photo and map of the approach and route. Is there a slope above or below it? If the forecast says to avoid gully features and unsupported slopes the decision making process shouldn't be too taxing. 

Also climb with a beacon and shovel. Many ice climbers don't but this has lead to a couple of potentially avoidable deaths. 

Dharma Bum wrote:

In addition to a training course, use the CAIC avalanche forecast along with the knowledge of which climbs are in avalanche prone territory (usually obtainable from guide books or route descriptions).  Some climbs are very low risk even when the avy danger is high. When in doubt - DON'T GO!

http://avalanche.state.co.us/

Also, there is avalanche data on almost all avalanche terrain in Colorado.  I have called the CAIC and discussed the avalanche risk of a particular slope based on history.

Hillmap and Avanet can also provide slope information.

You can also measure slope angle using paths in Google Earth while trip planning.

There's a guy (based in AK?) that goes by the name "F" over on supertopo, that offers to buy avy courses for attractive men.  I didn't take him up on it, but if you fit the bill, might want to head over there and start a thread.  Tell him Burchey sent ya.

just remember, most people hit in an avy, had the education to avoid the avy

Buff Johnson wrote:

just remember, most people hit in an avy, had the education to avoid the avy

Meaning that the education is not adequate to protect you even if used correctly, or that people don't use it when they have it?

Optimistic wrote:

Meaning that the education is not adequate to protect you even if used correctly, or that people don't use it when they have it?

Well that gets into a WHOLE other conversation.  Group think, can't happen to me, bad choices, bad luck, not wanting to bail on an objective etc. etc.  Of course that's disturbing simplifying the metal science of it, but yeah quite often educated people refrain from making the best choices. 

Mark Ra wrote:

Take a level 1 AIARE Course, get a beacon, probe, shovel (and your partners too), keep up daily during the season on the snow pack from the CAIC (starts November 1st with daily forecasts and conditions), read Bruce Temper's "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain".

Mark Ra wrote:

You can also measure slope angle using paths in Google Earth while trip planning.

Start using Caltopo in the states at least, much better than google earth. You can make a KML route in google earth and load it in caltopo and see what is what. Great tool for trip planning.

A lot of climbs in Colorado it seems have huge bowls or unstable slopes over them (The Ribbon, Sherman Climb, Stairway to Heaven, All of 10 mile canyon, countless others) There is simply no way of knowing what the conditions are above you, other than visual, and in some cases you cannot readily even see what is above you. 

Having taken the AIARE level 1 class, a few things are certain - there is wide spacial variability in our snowpack over a short geographical area, (snow pits can look much different just 30 feet apart) and the bottom of the snowpack for most of the winter can be assumed to be un-cohesive facets that can't support much weight, and weak layers abound. Basically any steep snowpack is potentially very dangerous.

All of the recommendations are good, (mapping, reading, CAIC reports, classes) and I believe prudence goes a long way in keeping you safe, but you cannot reduce the risk to zero, and there is unfortunately a bit of luck involved. Do the best you can to reduce the risk to zero as is realistic, and be okay with turning around. After hiking 5 miles in. When the ice looks great. And you drove 3 hours. And took a day off work. 

Take a level one and climb with people who respect avalanches and their hazards.

Shepido wrote:

A lot of climbs in Colorado it seems have huge bowls or unstable slopes over them (The Ribbon, Sherman Climb, Stairway to Heaven, All of 10 mile canyon, countless others) There is simply no way of knowing what the conditions are above you, other than visual, and in some cases you cannot readily even see what is above you.

I'll second that. I had a very narrow escape on the Ribbon not too long ago. https://www.mountainproject.com/v/111568167.

Try Jason Maurer @ Colorado Mountain School.

He can teach you a level 1 that will give you good knowledge,

and want you coming back for more.. (Level2)

Optimistic wrote:

Meaning that the education is not adequate to protect you even if used correctly, or that people don't use it when they have it?

Both ... but as said that is another discussion. 

For the OP - take a class the skill that you will most benefit from is route finding.

Be cautious to the point of paranoia.  Two people I have climbed with (once or twice) died in avalanches and they were very experienced climbers. 

In Spring 2013, 5 people died in one avalanche just outside Loveland Ski Area.  They were all mountain professionals who had gathered for a Backcountry Safety symposium.   They had remotely triggered the avalanche.  They were on 'safe' terrain, but caused a snow pack collapse that propagated 600 vertical feet up the slope above them.

I have seen the 'safety in numbers' thinking that can be so dangerous.  I have often skied alone in the BC, but my paranoia about avalanches has so far kept me safe.  However, I heard that the director of the CAIC said (after the 2013 fatalities) that he would no longer ski the BC because he had lost so many friends to avalanches.

KevinCO wrote:

In Spring 2013, 5 people died in one avalanche just outside Loveland Ski Area.  They were all mountain professionals who had gathered for a Backcountry Safety symposium.   They had remotely triggered the avalanche.  They were on 'safe' terrain, but caused a snow pack collapse that propagated 600 vertical feet up the slope above them.

I believe the general agreement is they were crossing a known avalanche path (with previous fatalities) that feels safe and has a terrible terrain trap.