Sizing Moccs for Cracks

*sigh* yes, another one of these threads.

1. Yes, I have Googled and searched.

2. Yes, I have read the numerous threads dating back to 2008 asking similar questions.

3. No, this didn't answer my question nor can I readily try multiple pairs on, and I'm trying to factor in stretch.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm looking to pick up a pair for thin cracks and all day comfort.  I've owned a pair before (size 45/11.5) that was downsized aggressively and perfect for sport climbing, but not suitable for cracks.  I'm a bit of an Anasazi fiend and have worn the Tans, Pinks and Whites, all in the same size (12).  This is a performance fit with curled toes and no dead space, so I'm looking to end up a little bigger than that (flat toes) but with as secure a heel as I can get (admittedly will still probably suck).  I have a feeling that I'll end up with the same size Moccs, but I want to make sure that they'll stretch enough for my toes to flatten. For reference, my street size is somewhere around a 12.5/13.

Since "street size" is somewhat nebulous, I'm hoping there's someone who:

1) Has similar sized feet to me (46 on Brannock) and wears comfy Crack Moccs

2) Has a pair they use for the Creek and other 5.10 shoes for comparison.

If not, idle speculation and trolling can be fun as well.

I don't exactly fit your criteria but maybe this helps.

I generally wear an 11.5 street shoe (I like them a little loose,) I currently wear a size 10 Moccasym that have all day comfort and are excellent for smearing/jamming thin cracks. The first pair of size 10 Mocc's I had took a while to break in as I fit them "performance" tight so it was a week or so before I could climb cracks without real pain. This time, I bought the same size but the first thing I did with them is put them on my feet and sit with my feet in a warm bath. This really helped stretch out the leather and now they fit my feet exactly how I want them to, tight but still fairly comfortable. If I was really concerned about comfort, I probably would've went with a 10.5 instead of a 10, but they didn't have that size on sale :)

As for the Creek, I climbed there last winter with my first pair of mocc's and loved them for the finger cracks we were getting on. I even wound up choosing them over my mythos for the bigger cracks as well because I like the 5.10 rubber more than la sportiva's.

In conclusion, 

Hope this helps at least a little.

It seems like a list of sizes I wear in different shoes is a decent answer? My feet are a tad smaller than yours, but here you go:

Miura lace/vs: 40

TC pro: 40, 40.5

Scarpa instinct VS: 41

Geniuses: 39.5

Moccasyms: 7.5

Running shoes: 9.5

Normal sneakers and boots: 8-9

I wear the same size street shoe as you.

46 tc pros, 47 spotiva boulder approach shoe.

I have 12 and 12.5 red mocs and 12.5 white supermocs.

I find the 12.5 in both a bit sloppy with air suck in the arch, which is fine for hand cracks and days where I just want a comfy shoe.

The 12 mocs and tc pros are the shoe of choice for me. I've been really impressed with the pros in finger cracks. They are so comfy I find myself in them more and more and I've owned 4 pairs or red mocs.  But I do love the mocs as well, just depend where I am and what I'm doing that day.

Rob Subry wrote:

I wear the same size street shoe as you.

46 tc pros, 47 spotiva boulder approach shoe.

I have 12 and 12.5 red mocs and 12.5 white supermocs.

I find the 12.5 in both a bit sloppy with air suck in the arch, which is fine for hand cracks and days where I just want a comfy shoe.

The 12 mocs and tc pros are the shoe of choice for me. I've been really impressed with the pros in finger cracks. They are so comfy I find myself in them more and more and I've owned 4 pairs or red mocs.  But I do love the mocs as well, just depend where I am and what I'm doing that day.

Ding ding ding!  Sounds like we're shoemates. ;)  TC Pros in 46 are also my go-to Crack shoes and are fantastic for hands and wider.  I find them less ideal for finger cracks and thinner stuff though, as the toebox is pretty high profile and stiff, and I like C4 if the stuff outside the crack is smeary rather than edgy.  I ended up using my Pinks for this but they are a bit too aggressive for sustained jamming.  It's funny, because there's a certain size where you can get away with an aggressive fit because you're literally just cramming the tip of the shoe rubber in there, but as soon as it gets wide enough to fit your foot you feel it.

Moccs for cracks: comfortable, flat toe not crimped/curled toe if you are toe jamming.

-street shoe 10.5 

-TC pro 42.5

-Supermocc 10.5 snug not tight-11 comfy. Prefer 11 for IC thin cracks

Wow, so you size up from your street shoes?  Are these the regular leather uppers or the synthetics?

You should browse through size squirrel: https://sizesquirrel.com/public_match/

I wear 11 in HiAngles (I could go half a size down probably, but that would be a pretty aggressive fit). I wore 11's in Mocc's, and my toes would still curl a bit. They were comfy but at the end of the day my toes would feel it. Pulling them off here and there helped a ton though. I don't climb cracks, though.

Hey Alex!  Hope GA is treating you well.  I did check out SizeSquirrel, but the problem is that they don't specify use.  I could squeeze my feet into a 44 or 45 TC Pro if I wanted an aggressive fit, but I wear mine in 46 when climbing cracks/all day.  That same euro size is my aggressive Anasazi fit and super tight bouldering fit for HiAngles.  I'm guessing it's an Imperial/Metric thing. :p

Since "street size" is somewhat nebulous

How is "street size" nebulous? Isn't it a basic heuristic that translates equally to everyone no matter what your size?

FWIW I wear street sized Moccs for most of my all day outings and my Indian Creek adventures. Like you I used to have a tighter pair I used for sport, but now I wear more specialized shoes. This year in the Creek I had to buy a half-size up from my street size, been moderate multipitching all year in Squamish in them without problems until I get into the more techy 5.11s.

You don't have to size down to account for stretch with them since the upper is all synthetic. I'd imagine it just depends how comfortable the shoe is on your foot, as perhaps for some people the leather upper of the red moccasym is necessary to accomodate the shape of their foot.

Mark Roberts wrote:

How is "street size" nebulous? Isn't it a basic heuristic that translates equally to everyone no matter what your size?

Not even remotely. Sizing varies wildly among street shoe brands and even within street shoe brands. Plus there's the rarely-addressed question of how you like your street shoes to fit (personally I prefer a significant amount of extra toe space).

As a sizing heuristic, the best that can be said for it is that it's better than nothing.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Hey Alex!  Hope GA is treating you well.  I did check out SizeSquirrel, but the problem is that they don't specify use.  I could squeeze my feet into a 44 or 45 TC Pro if I wanted an aggressive fit, but I wear mine in 46 when climbing cracks/all day.  That same euro size is my aggressive Anasazi fit and super tight bouldering fit for HiAngles.  I'm guessing it's an Imperial/Metric thing. :p

When you add shoes to your profile on SizeSquirrel, you can specify aggressive / comfortable fit. If you're a registered user, and run the match on the Moccs, you'll see a lot of user comments, and you can then look for users who wear a 'Comfortable' fit, or who have specifically said they use the shoe for cracks. 

Street shoe size, 10.5 street shoes, 10.5 mocs

Like every other post you read before creating this one, it is useless. Buy a pair, hope they are right. If not, trade

The shape of feet can account for a lot of volume, which changes how a shoe fits regardless of foot length which street shoes are measured in

So, an update:

I tried on a pair of 12s today, which is my VCS/Pink performance size.  Fit was pretty good and similar to my VCS (no dead space), but my big toe was pressing hard into the tip of the shoe and my toes were fairly curled.  Definitely not something I would want to shove into a crack as it is.  I know that they do stretch and the toebox will get roomier, but I'm skeptical about how much they'll stretch lengthwise.  For those who've sized them for cracks, do you remember how they felt out of the box?  Hoping to try on some 12.5s to compare later this week.  It's funny that people are sizing them anywhere between their street size (or higher!) and a full size below.  Creating a profile helped with sizesquirrel, although now they're recommending my street size (13) for Moccs.

Ted Pinson wrote:

So, an update:

I tried on a pair of 12s today, which is my VCS/Pink performance size.  Fit was pretty good and similar to my VCS (no dead space), but my big toe was pressing hard into the tip of the shoe and my toes were fairly curled.  Definitely not something I would want to shove into a crack as it is.  I know that they do stretch and the toebox will get roomier, but I'm skeptical about how much they'll stretch lengthwise.  For those who've sized them for cracks, do you remember how they felt out of the box?  Hoping to try on some 12.5s to compare later this week.  It's funny that people are sizing them anywhere between their street size (or higher!) and a full size below.  Creating a profile helped with sizesquirrel, although now they're recommending my street size (13) for Moccs.

I've fit mine so that my toes are fairly curled out of the box. After a week or so of climbing in the gym they stretch enough that I'm flat footed in them. 

Slogger wrote:

I've fit mine so that my toes are fairly curled out of the box. After a week or so of climbing in the gym they stretch enough that I'm flat footed in them. 

Same here. A fair amount of the "stretch" is the rubber slingshot around the heel relaxing so your toes aren't jammed hard into the front of the shoe.

Hmm that's a good point.  That is kind of what the Anasazi last does and is where you get a lot of that power from, but it does feel like the rand is actively shoving your toes into the front.  That's interesting to know that you do start with curled toes and end up flat...perhaps the 12s are the way to go after all. Thanks, guys!

Brannock: 9.65

"street" 9.5 or 10 depending on the shoe

Blanco, VCS, Verde, Rogue performance fit: 9

Gym shoe/all day fit 9.5

Mocs for sport routes 9.

 Mocs for thin hands/rings cracks: worn out 9s close to resole time. 9.5s start out good, but a little less rand tension than I'd like, and the heel gets too loose as they break in. So I climb my warmup sport routes and some of my gym sessions in Mocs in 9s, and as they get worn in (and the sole gets rounded off and thinner) they become crack shoes. . 

caughtinside wrote:

Do you still have your old Mocs? Use those. Broken in stretched Mocs are better than a pair that you buy for flat toes. 

My old Mocs are on their third sole and super worn out, but my toes are still curled.  I went super aggressive with sizing, I believe they were 45s.  One of the best shoes I've worn for super overhanging routes like at the Red, but not something I'd want to climb cracks in, even now.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Wow, so you size up from your street shoes?  Are these the regular leather uppers or the synthetics?

Yes. No toe curl for cracks thanks.

I prefer the old supermoccs. Leather.