Non-climber surprises me with her take on Honnold's soloing

Eric wrote:

Never mind risking the fall and killing the folks behind you, I am simply appalled that you went up the cables without gloves!

Well... I didn't go up the cables.  In fact, I don't think I've ever gone up the cables.... just down them, maybe 8 or 10 times.

I'm just hoping no kids are going to see this and mimic my reckless irresponsible example.  :/

AndrewArroz wrote:I have a 12-year-old daughter who upon hearing of Alex's achievement asked me, "Dad, why aren't there any famous woman free-soloists?"

You should have said "because women are smarter than men".

John RB wrote:I told her that soloists have been around for years and I didn't know of a single instance of someone trying to mimic Bachar, Croft, Osman, Hersey, Reardon, Potter, or Honnold and then falling off and dying.  

Dude are you kidding me?  Some kid died soling the 1st flatiron in Boulder just the other day.  How do you know he wasn't inspired by Alex Honnold give it a try? Just because he wasn't soloing the same route as Honnold, doesn't mean he didn't get the idea from him.  Seems more than logical to me that the increased glorifying of free-soloing by the media would increase the number of climbers willing to free solo, thereby increasing the number of deaths.  

That said, wishing death upon anyone is messed up and terrible.  I don't agree with her resolution at all, but agree with her initial point about kids seeing Honnald on TV and wanting to Free Solo.  I just wish the media and climbing media alike wouldn't shine such a bright light on free-soloing. 

Roy Suggett wrote:

So...she did not know a lot about climbing.  She thought only of the welfare of wanna-bes.  She stuck to her guns on what she did not clearly understand.  Sounds quite like many of the commits on many threads here.  I say, give her credit for not caving on her thoughts for wanting more kids to live long and successful lives.  That being said, IF free soloists kept their exploits UN-exploited with the "media", I would bet we climbers would know and respect, but those wanna-bes would live longer in bliss. I believe going through life and not, in any way, hurting others, while puffing up yourself is a "good thing".  This wild, wild west of everybody knows everything due to tech. has its downsides!

Said the same thing on p. 3 bro and could not agree more!  Feels creepy to "" myself.

Greg D wrote:

You should have said "because women are smarter than men".

But there are famous female free soloist, never heard of Steph Davis?

ViperScale wrote:

But there are famous female free soloist, never heard of Steph Davis?

The thread is starting to repeat itself...

ViperScale wrote:

But there are famous female free soloist, never heard of Steph Davis?

Way to be original.  

Seb303 wrote:

Dude are you kidding me?  Some kid died soling the 1st flatiron in Boulder just the other day.  How do you know he wasn't inspired by Alex Honnold give it a try? Just because he wasn't soloing the same route as Honnold, doesn't mean he didn't get the idea from him.  Seems more than logical to me that the increased glorifying of free-soloing by the media would increase the number of climbers willing to free solo, thereby increasing the number of deaths.  

How do you know he was? How do you know media glorifying free-soloing increases the number of climbers willing to freesolo? Dude, are you kidding me?

Just conjecture and hoping that what "seems right" to you is factual. 

I can say that when I started climbing I consumed almost no climbing media (except for instructional texts of which freesoloing just isn't brought up.) And yet, here I am freesoloing without anyone to  "inspire" me. Does my singluar experience hold more weight than your singular conjecture? Nope. We'd both be idiots if we made such claims. 

Better to think about it the way I've had soloing explained in the past. "Soloing is about comfort at the grade. We freesolo every sidewalk we walk down, we freesolo every steep trail we hike. Why? because we know we're not going to fall. can we fall? of course and plenty do, especially if we think back to when we were young and still learning to walk. Imagine the parents that watch their toddler scamper across asphalt without holding their hand to support them; "oh no! freeesoloing babies!" So we continue the thought experiment. We freesolo boulder hopping which is starting to get risky. We freesolo fifth class approaches with packs on. Over time we climb enough that we freesolo 5.easy and think nothing of it. Climb long enough and freesoloing 5.6, 5.7, 5.8, 5.9 becomes second nature because when you're used to 5.11 the 5.7 sure feels like the sidewalk." 

Hell, freesoloing the flatirons is a time-honored thing that many many people have done. 

What's more likely, that the person who died on the flatirons was "inspired" by the act of one individual climbing completely different routes under completely different circumstances or was it more likely that the person was inspired by the many many climbers in Boulder talking about the joys of freesoloing the flatirons around the campfire? My visits to Boulder involved no interaction with honnold freesoloing El cap but sure as hell involved many climbers in Boulder canyon talking about hitting the flatirons without a rope after work.

Here’s just two front range examples off the top of my head.

Jason Haas – climber, soloist, guide book author, and special education teacher is probably not going to want to calculate his hrly rate donating new South Platte guidebooks any time soon.

Kirk Miller – recently retired special education teacher has put up many high quality routes along front range and donated everything out of his own pocket. (Kirk is (?) maybe 60 and climbs harder and looks better than 99% of all the 20 – 30 yr old climbers spraying on this site, what’s up with the 55 yr old haters?)

I was a DD children’s case manager for five years and know for a fact that there are tens of thousands of single moms out there raising severely disabled kids by themselves that are far more worthy of our admiration than any climber. Then there are all the ER nurses that patch us back up, the rescue guys that get us out when we screw up, firemen, public school teachers….

The bar is pretty low when it comes to pro athletes, you’re a hero if you haven’t beaten your 4 yr old with a branch you ripped off the back yard tree and sent him to the ER, beaten your girlfriend/wife unconscious, shot yourself in the foot while out drinking at the club, DUI, murder, sexual assault, rape, steroids, cocaine, weed, firearms…. An inordinately sizable % of the thugs in the NBA/NFL would be dead or in prison if they hadn’t been given a free ride through HS and college.

Honnold’s sponsors don’t give a rats ass about him, in two years they are going to be asking “hey Alex what have you done for us lately?” And the next crew of wannabes are going to be asking themselves what do I have to do to top Alex and attract sponsors? Lots of millennials getting killed in Colorado these days already. Can’t help but wonder how many of their phones will reveal that the last thing they did in this world was take a photo of themselves as they inadvertently stumbled into a pile of loose rock that took them over the edge.

jay smith wrote:

Here’s just two front range examples off the top of my head.

Jason Haas – climber, soloist, guide book author, and special education teacher is probably not going to want to calculate his hrly rate donating new South Platte guidebooks any time soon.

Kirk Miller – recently retired special education teacher has put up many high quality routes along front range and donated everything out of his own pocket. (Kirk is (?) maybe 60 and climbs harder and looks better than 99% of all the 20 – 30 yr old climbers spraying on this site, what’s up with the 55 yr old haters?)

I was a DD children’s case manager for five years and know for a fact that there are tens of thousands of single moms out there raising severely disabled kids by themselves that are far more worthy of our admiration than any climber. Then there are all the ER nurses that patch us back up, the rescue guys that get us out when we screw up, firemen, public school teachers….

The bar is pretty low when it comes to pro athletes, you’re a hero if you haven’t beaten your 4 yr old with a branch you ripped off the back yard tree and sent him to the ER, beaten your girlfriend/wife unconscious, shot yourself in the foot while out drinking at the club, DUI, murder, sexual assault, rape, steroids, cocaine, weed, firearms…. An inordinately sizable % of the thugs in the NBA/NFL would be dead or in prison if they hadn’t been given a free ride through HS and college.

Honnold’s sponsors don’t give a rats ass about him, in two years they are going to be asking “hey Alex what have you done for us lately?” And the next crew of wannabes are going to be asking themselves what do I have to do to top Alex and attract sponsors? Lots of millennials getting killed in Colorado these days already. Can’t help but wonder how many of their phones will reveal that the last thing they did in this world was take a photo of themselves as they inadvertently stumbled into a pile of loose rock that took them over the edge.

I'm sorry, I read your post and have no idea what point you're trying to make that incorporates all the details of your post

Regarding all you “old guy” haters, I’m gonna to be 57 in a few months and like most of the old school climbers still cranking I’ve got maybe 10 lbs more muscle than I had at 20 but otherwise the exact same size and weight.  Yea got some UV damage and a full head of salt n pepper, also much better endurance, a much bigger bag oft tricks, and I have to admit a much longer list of injuries.  So when I was out running 1200’ of laps on one of my favorite 11d’s last week (outdoors) I was in constant pain and that is the just the price of doing business these days.  Feel compelled to offer that even if we were willing to flush some of our increasingly precious energy down the toilet over “hot chicks” most of us could never tolerate any of the vacuous mind bogglingly narcissistic millennials currently sporting the desperate and strident obnoxiously hot pink booty shorts that made such a fuss in recent thread.

kevin deweese wrote:

I'm sorry, I read your post and have no idea what point you're trying to make that incorporates all the details of your post

Jay said earlier that he respects someone who gives his/her time to better the lives of others more than he respects someone who just gives money.  His post above is giving two examples of this by citing climbers he knows who are special ed. teachers (perhaps one of highest emotionally-demanding jobs for the least pay on the planet) and then compares to pro athletes who get called "heroes" just for not beating their wives.  Athletes often donate a lot of money to charity ('cept Mayweather who says he doesn't give to Africa because "what has Africa ever done for me?"), but they don't devote their lives to helping others.

Greg D wrote:

You should have said "because women are smarter than men".

I would have but repeating the obvious never sits well with her.

"We freesolo every sidewalk we walk down, we freesolo every steep trail we hike."

Your essay was well composed, but the overall point is absurd.  Climbing 5.11 will always be more dangerous than walking down the street, no matter how confident you feel.   As for the original topic, pulling out your phone on a first date and showing pictures of Alex Honnold free soloing is dooche central.   Then you don't like her viewpoint so you breate her on the internet.   Way to go!  

John RB wrote:

Jay said earlier that he respects someone who gives his/her time to better the lives of others more than he respects someone who just gives money.  His post above is giving two examples of this by citing climbers he knows who are special ed. teachers (perhaps one of highest emotionally-demanding jobs for the least pay on the planet) and then compares to pro athletes who get called "heroes" just for not beating their wives.  Athletes often donate a lot of money to charity ('cept Mayweather who says he doesn't give to Africa because "what has Africa ever done for me?"), but they don't devote their lives to helping others.

Ah! I remember reading that now. Thx

Russ Keane wrote:

Climbing 5.11 will always be more dangerous than walking down the street, no matter how confident you feel.

the point isn't about the objective danger, it's about the perception and acceptance of that danger for the individual based upon their experience. Take two people standing below a 5.7, one a climber one not a climber. One more likely to see anyone freesoloing that climb as crazy the other more likely to think it's doable (and both understand the danger) now keep using the ante. Stand below a 5.10 climb, one a climber that routinely climbs 5.12 the other climbs 5.7. Same difference in perception and same understanding of the objective danger. 

"beaten your girlfriend/wife unconscious, shot yourself in the foot while
out drinking at the club, DUI, murder, sexual assault, rape, steroids,
cocaine, weed"

Which of these things is not like the others? 

Russ Keane wrote:

As for the original topic, pulling out your phone on a first date and showing pictures of Alex Honnold free soloing is dooche central.   Then you don't like her viewpoint so you breate her on the internet.   Way to go!  

As I explained in the original post, we were talking about free climbing versus free-soloing.  I explained the difference and told her about Honnold.  She asked to see a picture. 

I don't understand why people on MP insist on ad hominem attacks.  Does it make people feel better about themselves to call someone they don't know a "dooche" based on an event they did not witness?  You're not the only one, Russ, just the latest.  Have a nice evening.

Opinions on free soloing and role modeling aside, it's pretty f'ed up to wish for someone's death in any circumstance. She could have wished he would quit, or wished his exploits wouldn't be publicized... and if she had, I doubt we'd have a thread about it. 

Will S wrote:

"beaten your girlfriend/wife unconscious, shot yourself in the foot while out drinking at the club, DUI, murder, sexual assault, rape, steroids, cocaine, weed"

Which of these things is not like the others? 

sexual assault and rape could end up with a baby... the rest would not.