Smoking at the crag

Did anyone crack a "climbing at your limit on lead within 15 feet of the ground" joke yet?

Ty Falk wrote:

Hahaha honestly is this for real. Your gona make this thread then try to end it. 

I don't really see how on a multi pitch climb you had a constant smell of smoke. Once you get 30 ft off the deck your not going to be getting that much second hand smoke if any. In eight years of climbing outside I have never once smelled smoke of any kind once I was off the deck. I find it hard to believe that it actually affected you. 

Better or worse recreational drug use and alcohol have been part of the climbing scene for a long time. If you can't handle that please stay indoors at a gym where you can't eat, smoke or drink. Sounds like fun! 

I never said I was climbing Pentapitch.  I was doing a climb called Jackelope around the bend.  The trail at the base curves around the bend and is quite steep.  Climbers up slope and at ground level are at eye level with me though I am 15ft off the deck.  The wind was not in my favor.

You people lack imagination.  There are an unimaginable number of ways that 2nd hand smoke can be blown all over to ruin one's outdoor experience, especially at a crag.

Furthermore, I don't climb at a high level, so I couldn't "out-run" the smoke, as some have suggested.  I was stalled at the crux.

We don't live in the 50s anymore folks.  Smoking has been banned from public places for a reason.  If I knew I would get fumigated on this climb, I simply would not have done it.  If you want to smoke around people in a public setting, where a damn astronaut helmet and smoke inside of it.  You'll get more tobacco that way.

In general, I am amazed at what people are willing to tolerate in terms of air pollution.  People needlessly idling their vehicles in winter parking lots are a good example.

And can we let go of who's desire is more important?  A courteous person is thinking more about others than themselves.  I gather many of you can't grasp that concept.

20 kN wrote:

I am not sure that's really true. There is no law anywhere that says people have a legal right to smoke. There are minor stipulations here and there in the law regarding the location of designated smoking areas and the such, but easily the vast majority of smoking-related laws are in favor of the non-smokers, which makes a smoke-free atmosphere much more of a legal right than smoking.

Eh, most of the second-hand smoke laws are for closed spaces, and the general rule is you have a right to something unless it's specifically forbidden, although local/state laws vary widely and some places are much stricter.  I do think a strong argument could be made against smoking in public parks as part of burn-bans (a lot of forest fires are started by discarded cigarette butts), but it's practically unenforceable.

Spencer Parkin wrote:

I promise to leave this thread alone, but just wanted to end by saying...  I'm sorry for sowing any discord or contention on the intardweb...again.  I think in our day and age we could all do with a lot more tolerance, love and forgiveness.  I'm sorry I got on here to spew my bad feelings.

I'm going to look for a support group that can help me overcome my problem with posting crap on the internet.

"Hi, my name is Spencer."

"Hi, Spencer!"

"It's been 4 weeks since my last posting."

Applause.

You only made it eight hours before you posted again. It appears that you have relapsed, Spencer.

FrankPS wrote:

You only made it eight hours before you posted again. It appears that you have relapsed, Spencer.

I've hit rock bottom.

Spencer Parkin wrote:

I've hit rock bottom.

I hope you don't end up posting from Skid Row, Countless MP posters are helpless in the face of self-restraint (me, included). We're all rooting for you, Spencer. Dig deep and you can stop this death spiral of posting. Maybe. :)

FrankPS wrote:

I hope you don't end up posting from Skid Row, Countless MP posters are helpless in the face of self-restraint (me, included). We're all rooting for you, Spencer. Dig deep and you can stop this death spiral of posting. Maybe. :)

I need help.  Someone take my phone away...or cut my thumbs off...or cut my throat...

Spencer Parkin wrote:

I never said I was climbing Pentapitch.  I was doing a climb called Jackelope around the bend.  The trail at the base curves around the bend and is quite steep.  Climbers up slope and at ground level are at eye level with me though I am 15ft off the deck.  The wind was not in my favor.

You people lack imagination.  There are an unimaginable number of ways that 2nd hand smoke can be blown all over to ruin one's outdoor experience, especially at a crag.

Furthermore, I don't climb at a high level, so I couldn't "out-run" the smoke, as some have suggested.  I was stalled at the crux.

We don't live in the 50s anymore folks.  Smoking has been banned from public places for a reason.  If I knew I would get fumigated on this climb, I simply would not have done it.  If you want to smoke around people in a public setting, where a damn astronaut helmet and smoke inside of it.  You'll get more tobacco that way.

In general, I am amazed at what people are willing to tolerate in terms of air pollution.  People needlessly idling their vehicles in winter parking lots are a good example.

And can we let go of who's desire is more important?  A courteous person is thinking more about others than themselves.  I gather many of you can't grasp that concept.

You actually did say you were at pentapitch. "So this is what happened to me today at Pentapitch" You are in bizarro world. 

+10 for the OP being a cry baby.  If smoke offends you at the crag, stay indoors or just toughen up and realize that others have right to do what they want, including smoking.  I am having a hard time believing that you fell off due to smoke.  John Wayne would punch you in your face for being such a softie.   Toughen up buttercup   

Ty Falk wrote:

You actually did say you were at pentapitch. "So this is what happened to me today at Pentapitch" You are in bizarro world. Please stick to the climbing gyms. If that bother you I feel sorry for ya. You seam like the kind of person who goes around trying to push their ideas on others, not too dissimilar from the missionary's who countless times have tried to pushed there religion on me. You don't do that too do you?

Pentapitch is an area and a climb.

I'm sorry you feel I'm pushing my ideas on you.  Click to a different website, or don't read this thread.  Problem solved.

Ty Falk wrote:

In eight years of climbing outside I have never once smelled smoke of any kind once I was off the deck. I find it hard to believe that it actually affected you. 

Better or worse recreational drug use and alcohol have been part of the climbing scene for a long time. 

This guy would know, he has been climbing outside for like 8 years!

trailridge wrote:

+10 for the OP being a cry baby.  If smoke offends you at the crag, stay indoors or just toughen up and realize that others have right to do what they want, including smoking.  I am having a hard time believing that you fell off due to smoke.  John Wayne would punch you in your face for being such a softie.   Toughen up buttercup   

I never said I fell off.  Where are you people getting all these ideas?

And that's right.  Everyone just has the right to do whatever they want.  That's how we all get along in a country of laws and ordinances.

If you see me at the crag, just shoot me and put me out of my misery.  It's your God-given right.

Ty Falk wrote:

You actually did say you were at pentapitch. "So this is what happened to me today at Pentapitch" You are in bizarro world. 

"at Pentapitch" and "on Pentapitch" are different things.  https://www.mountainproject.com/v/jackalope-/113197432  Notice the area this climb is located in.

Dean Wright wrote:

OLH might chime in,   Then this thread should be terminated 

First, thread drift: sorry to see a closed account, Dean. I truly hate that. Much better for all of us to thrash it out.

Second thread drift: Spencer, stick with it anyway. You're coming off a bit of a princess on MP, but what the hey.

To the Original Post: sorry, a "whiff" isn't exactly huge. 

My question? What is wrong with this approach, sir?

Spencer: "Hey, man, mind moving it over? I have asthma (or whatever)

Dude/dudette: "Shit, man, sorry!!"

Did you simply say something? You never actually mention that, even though Ted implies it.

Best, OLH

Spencer, pentapitch is a great climb and a great area. Just FYI, when you post things on MP you really get to see the hatefulness of our community come to life. The reality is that everyone appreciates the dialogue you started but many hateful armchair generals patrol these threads. My advice is to not respond to any who is sending personal attacks your way. But, keep posting! Its good for these arm chair generals to see that not everyone has the same opinion as them.  

Everyone needs to keep the religious jabs to themselves. Anyone who doesnt live in SLC is not qualified to comment on LDS (Mormon) people. They do not push their ideas on people - missionaries walking around are young kids performing a duty for their people. Yes, LDS people can be innocent, but I have only had positive experiences. 

Smoke at the crag is annoying for sure. I hate breathing it in as much as the next guy. However strong I feel about that though, I believe in civil liberties even more. Less rules and less government is always better. I think a dialogue would have been great. 

Old lady H wrote:

First, thread drift: sorry to see a closed account, Dean. I truly hate that. Much better for all of us to thrash it out.

Second thread drift: Spencer, stick with it anyway. You're coming off a bit of a princess on MP, but what the hey.

To the Original Post: sorry, a "whiff" isn't exactly huge. 

My question? What is wrong with this approach, sir?

Spencer: "Hey, man, mind moving it over? I have asthma (or whatever)

Dude/dudette: "Shit, man, sorry!!"

Did you simply say something? You never actually mention that, even though Ted implies it.

Best, OLH

I couldn't see where the smoke was coming from.  But it was constant and unmistakable and gross.  A minute later, the smoker comes walking down the trail.  No response.

The moment I could smell it, I said, "Please stop smoking!", though I could not see where it was coming from.  My tone, I'm sure, would have offended more often than it would have disarmed.  I'm sorry.

Again, I'm not saying smoking is not aloud.  I'm advocating compromise.  That goes both ways.  If I arrive at a smoke-filled crag, and I don't like smoke, then it is polite for me to leave.  If I'm already on route, and smoke arrives, then I believe it's polite for the smoker to be considerate of others.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the general MP response.  I've lost all faith in humanity.  Hopefully North Korea will launch their nukes sooner rather than later.

grog m aka Greg McKee wrote:

Spencer, pentapitch is a great climb and a great area. Just FYI, when you post things on MP you really get to see the hatefulness of our community come to life. The reality is that everyone appreciates the dialogue you started but many hateful armchair generals patrol these threads. My advice is to not respond to any who is sending personal attacks your way. But, keep posting! Its good for these arm chair generals to see that not everyone has the same opinion as them.  

Everyone needs to keep the religious jabs to themselves. Anyone who doesnt live in SLC is not qualified to comment on LDS (Mormon) people. They do not push their ideas on people - missionaries walking around are young kids performing a duty for their people. Yes, LDS people can be innocent, but I have only had positive experiences. 

Smoke at the crag is annoying for sure. I hate breathing it in as much as the next guy. However strong I feel about that though, I believe in civil liberties even more. Less rules and less government is always better. I think a dialogue would have been great. 

Thank you.  I appreciate your comments and advice.

Get over it. It's outside. People can smoke if they want to. I'm not a smoker, but I think this whole "anti-smoking anywhere" nonsense has gone too far. Hopefully smokers have enough sense to realize that no one else really wants to smell their cigs, but who cares. I'm sure your little lungs were not affected by a few wiffs of smoke. Jesus.

Spencer Parkin wrote:

My fellow MPers.  Imagine this...  You're climbing at your limit, on lead, and breathing hard.  You're not sure you can hang on.  Then, all of a sudden, you get a big fat huge whiff of 2nd hand smoke.

Heavy, heavy sigh...

So this is what happened to me today at Pentapitch.

Please, please, please!

Please!  I'm pleading with anyone who'll listen, anyone who'll care...

Please be considerate of others at the crag if you choose to smoke there.  I'm not saying people shouldn't smoke at the crag.  But if you do choose to do that, please consider how your smoking may effect those around you.  Some (such as myself) are much more sensitive to 2nd hand smoke than others.

Yes, you have a right to smoke.  But don't we all have a right to breath fresh mountain air?  When one person's right begins to infringe on the rights of others, then we all have to work out some soft of compromise.  If I ask you to stop smoking, because I can't breath, please don't be a jerk, and continue to smoke anyway.

Thanks.

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