Separate lead belaying and climbing certifications

Lena chita wrote:

Oh wow! That's pretty ridiculous. I stand corrected. I should never underestimate the degree to which people would complicate things. :)

One of the gyms around here used to charge for a belay test, too. AND they had an annoying rule that if your last visit was some time ago, you had to re-test (and pay), even if you were still in the database.

Separate certs for different devices makes alot off sense. Using a Gri as opposed to a atc is completely different and just because you know one doesn't mean you can competently know the other.

Charging for the test is the way to weed out the "time wasters", eg those who kinda know how to belay but not really, a nominal fee would do the job...$3 maybe. However I would probably waive the fee often because it is a lame thing to charge for.

Kat Hessen wrote:

I only joined a gym about a week ago, so I have very little experience with what is and isn't normal indoors, but my gym (Mesa Rim in San Diego -- mentioned above) does the separate certs. The lead test is an overhanging, long 5.9, so as someone in shoulder rehab who enjoys climbing 5.6-5.8 trad outdoors, that's not gonna happen for a while. I just mock-lead with my own rope while on TR to get the feel for sport climbing -- plenty fun for me.

However -- several of my climbing buddies are leading all kinds of tricky stuff, and while I'm not climbing a lot of overhanging stuff yet, I think it's great that I can lead belay them inside as I do outside. I also think it's a good idea to have a supervised test, because obviously there's a huge difference between me belaying my partner on an alpine route or just a fun Tahquitz multipitch where we're climbing 4th class-5.8 and nobody is falling, versus pushing yourself on a gym sport climb, which is the perfect time to try and fail and take big falls on lead. 

I make new partners belay me with a GriGri always, so I can only imagine how sketched out I'd be to take on a hard lead with a relative stranger using an ATC, not knowing if they were experienced at securing falls inches from the next clip. The split cert seems pretty clever to me, because if you know how to lead belay or/and lead climb, it's a breeze and really not much of an inconvenience -- and if it's not a breeze, they catch your lack of skills in a safe setting. 

I do think it's a little funny to think that someone who only climbs indoors would have to do their first ever lead on an overhanging 5.9...but we don't do these things because they are easy, right?

I also climb at MR and I agree that requiring someone to climb their 5.9 is too much. Who cares how hard someone can climb, can they lead or not? 

Also, don't get a false sense of security from the Gri, it's easily misused and drops happen.