Drinking & Climbing

Kyle Elliott wrote:

I would personally rather climb with a good friend who is hammered, than some rando I "met" online. 

edit: and would NEVER climb with a hammered rando.

That's the rub, and why so many of us think the OP made the right decision to not climb with this person, or, really talk straight with them.

OP, finding someone to give you a belay is one thing, a partner is a whole other magnitude up.

My son and I are both about three years in now. We've gone out with quite a lot of folks, him much more than I. He has a whole stable to call on to go play, but only one or two (depending on peaks or wilds) that he pushes himself with, and will go on sketch stuff out in the back country.

Myself, still being not great shakes as a climber? I have to hunt even harder, and be aware that a great many will not be a safe fit, let alone a great one.

They are out there, but it can take be an agonizing process!

Thanks again for putting yourself out there. Good thread!

Best, OLH

greg t wrote:

"This silly comment thread is unwanted, unwarranted, and will not be accepted!"

Warren "Batso" Harding! (Yeah, I had to Google the image, okay?)

Wryly done, sir!

Best, OLH

Jaren Watson wrote:

If by "throw(ing) words" you mean "stating inarguable facts and using common sense," then yes, I and others will go ahead, as you say.  Try to keep up.

bwahaha

So many of the "inarguable facts" from a lot of your posts seem like your opinion and it definitely comes across as just wanting to hear your own voice.

Fritz N. wrote:

fabrication of the identity politics culture that is currently wreaking havoc in the pyublic sphere.

What?

Just the truth we both live different lives. Neither is right or wrong, mine may be wrong if anything. Pointing out differences isn't condescending, I grew up extremely religious and know first hand how different the world I live in now is. Religion can be great and great for people but there is a lot to try to grasp on why people may do things that may not make sense hence this thread. I'm sure he's psyched you got his back tho I bet he needed it.

Fritz N. wrote:

Hot damn, condescend much? It's not like the OP is Amish. Understanding another world doesn't necessitate full participation or identification therein. The argument that you will never understand X if you aren't X or have never done X is a fabrication of the identity politics culture that is currently wreaking havoc in the public sphere.

He didn't condescend at all. He admitted that he did not know the world in which the OP lives either. 

While I agree that you don't need to be X to understand X, the OP seems pretty sheltered in life if he needs to ask an internet board about someone belaying while drinking. 

Spencer Parkin wrote:

Everyone, please understand that I am genuinely seeking advice from the climbing community with this post, and am not in any way trying to judge anyone or anything, start a debate, or cause any contention.  Please don't flame me.  I'm hoping to gain some understanding or wisdom here from people that are more experienced in these matters.

Now, most people probably know by now that I'm Mormon (LDS).  (No, I don't have horns.)  As such, I have been quite sheltered from alcohol.  I don't know much about it; I've never had a sip; I don't always know what it smells like.  So I'm a bit naive about what exactly the effects of drinking are.  Obviously, I've never been drunk.  My late paternal grandfather smoked and drank, and I loved my grandpa, and he was a good man; so please understand that though I believe drinking is more of a vice than a virtue, I do not think negatively of anyone who drinks.  If we went to lunch and I was buying, I'd pay for your beer, if that's what you wanted to drink (provided I was driving.)  All that being said...

So I met up with a climber I'd never climbed with before, and we had a great outing!  It was so much fun, and I think the world of this new acquaintance!  He's a great climber, has his whole life ahead of him, has so much potential!  Well, when I got home that evening, I talked to my wife about the outing, and she was upset to learn that this acquaintance had been drinking the whole time we'd been climbing.  Now, before we started climbing, I knew he had been drinking, and that doing so, if enough is drunk, can lead to impairment in terms of eye-hand-coordination and/or judgement.  However, despite my concern, I didn't say anything about it, and made the judgement call that this person probably knew what they were doing, and that if there was such a thing as "responsible drinking," then this person was acting thus responsible.  I should add that in my sober view, he was completely lucid and aware the whole time, and if it weren't for the cans or the smell, I would have had no idea he was under the influence of anything whatsoever.  In fact, he made a very impressive lead of the Green Adjective in LCC.  Anyhow, my wife said she already worries enough about me climbing, and that now the idea that my climbing partner may be drinking while we climb makes her feel even more anxious about me being out climbing.  I didn't count how many cans he'd had.

Finally, I'm going to try to ask a few questions about all this, and I'm hoping that this won't cause any contention.  I hope people will take me seriously and not make jokes or ridicule me.   (And, of course, I'm always worried I'm going to offend people and then they'll never want to climb with me ever.)  I'm just trying to get some advice here about how I, as a climber who doesn't drink, and doesn't really know anything about it, can make better judgments about climbing with people that do drink.  So here goes...

Was it unwise not to say anything or ask any questions before we started climbing?

Is this all just not a big deal and I'm just being ridiculous?

Is drinking and climbing something that so many people do all the time and get away with that it's generally accepted as no big deal, and I should just be cool with it?

I recall a news report of a climbing incident not too long ago that involved alcohol.  The rescue people said they might sue, saying the incident was a waste of resources, because it was preventable.  Should I never agree to climb with someone that has been or is drinking, especially if I don't know them?

There are lots of pictures on MP that glamorize the victory beer at the summit, and I'm sure that if you don't drink too much, you can rappel just fine; so what's the big deal, right?  Maybe it just all comes down to how well you know your acquaintances and how much you know they've drunk and how well you know they can handle it?

Thanks for reading this far.

climbing friend,

"Now, most people probably know by now that I'm Mormon (LDS)."

no. I do not know this but I am quite happy for you. 

"if there was such a thing as "responsible drinking,""

you try appear nonjudgmental in your postings, but I see here you are implying judgment implying there probably is no such thing as the responsible drinking. you would be incorrect.

"And, of course, I'm always worried I'm going to offend people and then they'll never want to climb with me ever."

just relax and be kind be yourownself.

"Is this all just not a big deal and I'm just being ridiculous?"

if person is intoxicated or has had more than 2-3 drank, it would indeed be reasonable to not let them belay you, yasssssss

"Should I never agree to climb with someone that has been or is drinking, especially if I don't know them?"

It really is not an issue - most people who are not terrible climber don't drink while climbing but may enjoy 1 or a couple "cold one" after their bold flash.

"the victory beer at the summit, and I'm sure that if you don't drink too much, you can rappel just fine; so what's the big deal, right?  Maybe it just all comes down to how well you know your acquaintances and how much you know they've drunk and how well you know they can handle it?"

yesssszzzssssszz - "victory beer" is quite different than "victory 6 pack"

may all your flash be bold, and your heart free, may the power of moroni carry you upward, refreshing your forearm at the crux

GDavis wrote:

Understand the history of your sport young one. Be ready and willing to communicate open minded, have standards of safety for yourself - you're LDS I assume you have a dozen or so kids to tend to so treat your safety standards accordingly. 

Theres another world out there that you've been sheltered from and you can never understand, not without a huge letting go of who you are. The same goes for guys like me understanding where you come from.

Ok, if you didn't intend to condescend, I'll take your word for it. But I still maintain that you don't need to undergo a "huge letting go of who you are" to understand a culture that you choose not to participate in.

To explain my identity politics rant, the mindset of "you can't judge X unless you've tried it / are identified with it"  is what leads to people today saying "You don't deserve to have an opinion on affirmative action / welfare / Black Lives Matter etc. because you're white and you'll never understand." Or as seen in the ever-popular microaggressions thread, "You're not a woman, so your opinion on whatever the heck we're trying to discuss in this dumpster fire of a thread is completely null and void."

I wouldn't risk it. I sometimes bring beer to drink immediately after climbing or to crack one open when we get back to the vehicle, but not while climbing. It's just not worth it. Like some have pointed out having one drink will most likely not impair someone enough to make a mistake, but I would save it for afterwards.

Jaren Watson wrote:

I'm pretty dickish in person, but I'd prefer, at least in writing, to be reasonable. Cheers.

haha.

Isn't this supposed to be the other way around? I am pretty reasonable and chill in person but can be percieved as a dick in the shit hole that is the interwebz

Jaren Watson wrote:

Yes! It definitely should be the other way around.

Hey, ding dong, we're all quite gifted at both on our off days! Just ask spouses and our kids for the real scoop. There are days even our dogs are rethinking their choice of person, I'm sure!

:-) OLH

Tim Lutz wrote:

http://www.sltrib.com/home/5271080-155/new-law-requires-signs-telling-patrons

For the youngsters in the audience:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

Fritz N. wrote:

Ok, if you didn't intend to condescend, I'll take your word for it. But I still maintain that you don't need to undergo a "huge letting go of who you are" to understand a culture that you choose not to participate in.

To explain my identity politics rant, the mindset of "you can't judge X unless you've tried it / are identified with it"  is what leads to people today saying "You don't deserve to have an opinion on affirmative action / welfare / Black Lives Matter etc. because you're white and you'll never understand." Or as seen in the ever-popular microaggressions thread, "You're not a woman, so your opinion on whatever the heck we're trying to discuss in this dumpster fire of a thread is completely null and void."

You read way too much into things dude. I'm one of 7 kids. Relax with your straw men and bad ideas. I'm poor I treat passive aggression with actual aggression get outta here with that whack shit.

I would rather climb with a drunk pro  than a sober gumby but that being said I still feel it  is dumb as shit to drink before climbing. Pleanty of time for post climbing brews...

GDavis wrote:

You read way too much into things dude. I'm one of 7 kids. 

What else do you expect me to do at my  job, work? ;-) Let's call it good -- I edited my initial response.

Don't read too much into the rest of this response, but I'm going to hazard a guess that I grew up just as conservative as you. 

In fact, if you want to get into a tinkling contest over who has a more social conservative background -- best start chuggin'. PK, MK, thoroughbred homeschooler, one of seven kids, autographed copy of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," not allowed to listen to dc Talk, wore Hawaiian shirts because they were cool, grew up in Texas, top marks in AWANA, volunteered at a nursing home for thirteen years, wrote concerned letters to my state representatives weekly, memorized straight from the King Motherfucking James because everything else is just paraphrase.

My therapist asked me what it was like growing up in the fishbowl and this is what I said:

So my sista wear a jean skirt even in the summer
But guys wearin girlpants don't get no dumber
You pop-colla preps and you green-haired punks
Take a swigga V-8: who got krunk?
I'ma double fisted drinka grape juice and skim milk
Freestylin at the spellin bee and flowin like silk
I'ma rip yo corn shuckless if you gonna raise a ruckus
and if you thinkin we be suckas listen up mutha-
- frickas, you sicka than a dog wit hay fever
Yo mamma said you ugly and I'm startin to believe her
So break it down, we gots the homeschool sound
Sing it loud, sing it proud, we the illest kids around!

In other words, happy Friday, Mountain Project. May all your sends this weekend be glorious.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Wait.....should I wait until 5?!?

Fritz N. wrote:

What else do you expect me to do at my  job, work? ;-) Let's call it good -- I edited my initial response.

Don't read too much into the rest of this response, but I'm going to hazard a guess that I grew up just as conservative as you. 

In fact, if you want to get into a tinkling contest over who has a more social conservative background -- best start chuggin'. PK, MK, thoroughbred homeschooler, one of seven kids, autographed copy of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," not allowed to listen to dc Talk, wore Hawaiian shirts because they were cool, grew up in Texas, top marks in AWANA, volunteered at a nursing home for thirteen years, wrote concerned letters to my state representatives weekly, memorized straight from the King Motherfucking James because everything else is just paraphrase.

My therapist asked me what it was like growing up in the fishbowl and this is what I said:

So my sista wear a jean skirt even in the summer
But guys wearin girlpants don't get no dumber
You pop-colla preps and you green-haired punks
Take a swigga V-8: who got krunk?
I'ma double fisted drinka grape juice and skim milk
Freestylin at the spellin bee and flowin like silk
I'ma rip yo corn shuckless if you gonna raise a ruckus
and if you thinkin we be suckas listen up mutha-
- frickas, you sicka than a dog wit hay fever
Yo mamma said you ugly and I'm startin to believe her
So break it down, we gots the homeschool sound
Sing it loud, sing it proud, we the illest kids around!

In other words, happy Friday, Mountain Project. May all your sends this weekend be glorious.

King James version is directly plagiarized from Tyndale, who is the one responsible for the beautiful English translation. It didn't work out well for him.

Best, OLH

I stopped at " I knew he had been drinking"

So youre saying if you were at lunch and he had a beer you wouldnt let him drive but he could be drinking the "whole time your rock climbing" and that was OK?

You're a little clueless...

Matt Pierce wrote:

I stopped at " I knew he had been drinking"

So youre saying if you were at lunch and he had a beer you wouldnt let him drive but he could be drinking the "whole time your rock climbing" and that was OK?

You're a little clueless...

Haha! Oops. Might consider reading first before typing "clueless".

Good thread, Spencer!

Best OLH