un-necessary bolts at Rubidoux.

Lets chop em!

TYeary Yeary wrote:

Yeah, thanks Guy. I'm sure it was well intentioned, but totally inappropriate.

I WISH SPORT CLIMBING DIDN'T EXIST AT ALL!  AMIRTIE?!? 

Kill the pig! Spill its blood!

For real tho lame and should be chopped, and more to the point those who put them in should be drawn, quartered and be given wet willies as per trad traditions.

Guy... Is that "Pin scars aka Machine gun" 5.8?  That's extremely disappointing to see someone bolt that climb.  

Forever Outside aren't you the one that complimented the route and said it had great bolt placements. Kinda contradicting yourself here aren't you?

I'm guessing these bolts won't last much longer. If this is let go how many other 30ft faces will get bolted? Joe Brown, Joe Browns Helmet, Smooth Sole Wall just to name a few.

fireoretire wrote:

Guy... Is that "Pin scars aka Machine gun" 5.8?  That's extremely disappointing to see someone bolt that climb.  

Yes.  It has been fixed now. The guys who bolted it are cool with the removal, they now understand about "how it is at Stoney" .....  I gave them some locations they could go to and bolt away.

Thats is why I feel most of this sort of stuff is done out of ignorance and not some sort of "make the world safe" motivation. 

Take care of your crags

Tim Lutz wrote:

I blame rap music, instagram, and Gri Gris

You forgot:  Spandex

Guy Keesee wrote:

Yes.  It has been fixed now. The guys who bolted it are cool with the removal, they now understand about "how it is at Stoney" .....  I gave them some locations they could go to and bolt away.

Thats is why I feel most of this sort of stuff is done out of ignorance and not some sort of "make the world safe" motivation. 

Take care of your crags

Nice work!

Bill Odenthal wrote:

Forever Outside aren't you the one that complimented the route and said it had great bolt placements. Kinda contradicting yourself here aren't you?

I'm guessing these bolts won't last much longer. If this is let go how many other 30ft faces will get bolted? Joe Brown, Joe Browns Helmet, Smooth Sole Wall just to name a few.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.  I see both sides of the picture.  Yes, it was bolted and makes a fun lead climb, I'm not going to "boulder" it unprotected and it was more fun to lead it than TR it.  Do I understand the "historical value" of the place, of course I do.  I am a little conflicted because historically, when the route may have been established, 50 years ago, there was no sport climbing, so maybe that's why it was not considered. I'm not trolling, I personally think the bolt placement was fun and safe, but I am from the new guard, with an open mind about evolution.  My comment was just a joke to the old guard that bolting is for lames.  I really don't care either way as I have climbed there a total of 3 times and have no intention on returning.  The used condoms, broken glass, cigarette butts, and gang graffiti are enough to protect the area IMHO.

Wow, who does that?  Rubidoux is where I learned to climb, though it has long been on the receiving end of poor treatment from other climbers.  The unnecessary bolts at the top of Five Niner are a good example.  Bolting that problem, however, is particularly lame.  I guess climbing is only fun if you're clipping bolts?  I say chop 'em.   

Forever Outside: I think the "new guard" is off soloing El Cap or doing the Fitzroy Traverse. Bolting totally has its place, the whole idea behind a new order in climbing is to search out what hasn't been done before in terms of difficulty, and go do it - sometimes that requires pushing the establishment a bit, using crampons and not nailed boots, resorting to jammed pebbles, pounding in pitons, drilling bolts. Some people resist the change, some people embrace it. I've embraced sport climbing, besides bouldering, it's almost all I do nowadays. BUT - showing up at an already established little 5.9 boulder problem, and adding bolts for a sport lead, which apparently could sucker some poor unsuspecting newbie into a ground fall is anything but cutting edge. Local ethics aside; it dangerous and should be removed.

Chris Owen wrote:

Forever Outside: I think the "new guard" is off soloing El Cap or doing the Fitzroy Traverse. Bolting totally has its place, the whole idea behind a new order in climbing is to search out what hasn't been done before in terms of difficulty, and go do it - sometimes that requires pushing the establishment a bit, using crampons and not nailed boots, resorting to jammed pebbles, pounding in pitons, drilling bolts. Some people resist the change, some people embrace it. I've embraced sport climbing, besides bouldering, it's almost all I do nowadays. BUT - showing up at an already established little 5.9 boulder problem, and adding bolts for a sport lead, which apparently could sucker some poor unsuspecting newbie into a ground fall is anything but cutting edge. Local ethics aside; it dangerous and should be removed.

agreed. I'm not here to debate really.  I made a comment in sarcasm (guess i forgot to add "/s") and was called out for being a hypocrite.  
I've never bolted anything and don't plan to, so nobody shall fear my behavior.  Carry on!

Open letter to those who bolted Steck/ Salathe on Half Dome Boulder:

Please, let's meet and talk, share ideas, communicate our values and concerns. My email is tony_yeary@hotmail.com . 

Tony

Tony Yeary wrote:

Open letter to those who bolted Steck/ Salathe on Half Dome Boulder:

Please, let's meet and talk, share ideas, communicate our values and concerns. My email is tony_yeary@hotmail.com . 

Tony

Translation; "Come to me so that I may beat you up".................. ;)

  I sometimes love sport climbing and I sometimes love runout R rated routes. So I tend to avoid these "to bolt or not to bolt" discussions for the most part, but this one seems to be calling to me.

"I'm not going to "boulder" it unprotected and it was more fun to lead it than TR it. "

I'm not quoting this to criticize the person who said it, but because this statement so perfectly captures the mentality that other people have that leads to silly bolting of things that make silly lead routes.  Which in an of itself is not a problem in many areas - it's easy enough to avoid routes one thinks are silly - but it does create issues in "historically" differently-climbed areas.  I know you said you don't bolt things so my comments are not directed at you, but I hope they will be food for thought for people who think it's a good idea to bolt stuff like this.

Firsly, please consider that this attitude, when applied as a reason to bolt stuff like this, is completely self centered.  Other people might prefer to boulder it or toprope it, and the bolts visually are a blight. In an urban area like this, they might also cause access issues.  It's not just about you.

Secondly, I find this whole obsession with the preference of leading over following or toproping to be a something that might bear closer self-examination.  It's like, when we lead a route,  we get some gratification out of it that we don't get if we second or toprope it.  What an interesting ego game.  For each person, that line of what makes it more fun is different.  If it's too "unprotected", it's too scary and not fun.  If it's too protected, like following or toproping, it's too safe and not fun enough.  Just like the children's story, the porridge has to be "just right".  That's why we have had these endless arguments over the years, with one person shouting "too scary", let me have my fun with more bolts, and the other person saying, too safe, you took all my fun away.

So I guess my idea for people who think,  you just HAVE to lead it or it's not FUN for you, AND you want it bolted to YOUR standard of not TOO scary, just scary ENOUGH, whatever that is, is find some developed area that fits that description, and climb those routes.  Or bolt new routes to the same standard in a new place where access issues aren't a potential problem, and there is not some long established local consensus of route setting.  

Wise words phylp

These guys should just head up the road to either the quarry or box springs is they fee the need to clip bolts.