Fell 20' on top rope

Super sorry to hear that you got hurt.  With the limited info you have provided, it sounds like the weight difference between you was a big factor.  How far did your belayer get pulled off the ground? Was there slack in the rope in front of you before you fell?

Did you ask your belayer?

FrankPS wrote:

Did you ask your belayer?

Super important to talk to them, even if you never climb together again.

I usually ask people how much a partner weighs if there's a visible size difference (or just say my weight and ask if they're okay with that.) 

Does your gym have twice-wrapped drums for top rope anchors? That provides way more friction than a locker or two outside.

I'm guessing there was slack somewhere in the system. You aren't traveling at full speed when you lift the belayer off the ground. Their weight at least slows you. For you to hit hard enough to break bones, you had to be free falling, right?

How much rope was out at the 3/4 mark? I'm guessing (though far from certain) your belayer messed up, what did they say? Some more detail is required.

Gym rope is not static, or at least it shouldn't be. Some of the workhorse gym ropes do have a bit lower dynamic elongation.

Yeah I hit hard for sure. I heard them break. shitty sound. 

When I first started up I had to get her to take since there was slack. She usually uses ATC but for some reason had gri-gri that day. WHich really should helped her. 

I did ask she said the rope stretched.

Then about 8 hours later she called me, crying saying she thought her belaying was the reason. She wouldn't come out and say there was slack but when I started to fall I counted and got a good 3 count in. 

I am not wanting to place blame. Looking for explanations but my first, and still primary theory was she was a little lazy in belay. I was making really quick progress up that crack so maybe she couldn't keep up.

I just don't think the rope would switch that month. But looking for alternate explanations. 

I told her it wasn't her fault it was ACCIDENT. Hey, 3 feet to the right I would have been dean nice pointed rock there. Shit happens. Honstely I've looked down a few times and she is gazing off somewhere and I have to yell down to pay attention, lol.

Anyway since I'm down 8-12 weeks I doubt we'll climb together again.

Bad belay. Three guesses. Way too much slack out (a little is nice), wasn't locked off after taking, wasn't anchored.  

Edit to add, gri gri use may have been an issue too.

In math form, (slack , plus rope stretch, plus time it takes belay to lock, multiplied by distance unanchored light belayer travels during fall equals 20') (a + b + c x d = 20') 

If she attempted a gym/sport-style "soft catch" intentionally she should pay the hospital bill.

Best of luck and speedy recovery . JB

Luckily no hospital bill went to urgent care. Naw, I'm not gonna ask her for $$ she'd never give it up and she is too stubborn to admit she may have made mistake. She is super climber, lol. Hated it when I built anchor in front of her. 

She's a good girl we were about at the end of our time anyway. Hey, maybe a life insurance deal? But in the end I agree it had to be bad belay. I'll be back come August. No worries.

If you were 3/4 up the route and you weren't using a 70 or 80 meter rope for a 100ft + route there is no way rope stretch should account for falling with that much force for 20 feet(assuming your tibia break is a broken leg not a break at the ankle from landing wrong on one foot). The weight difference alone shouldn't cause that either. Too much slack+late catch+weight difference could. Did your belayer have rope burns? If so might have been improper use of gri-gri(trying to catch the fall with climber side hand on rope as well as brake side)

It's possible she pulled in slack and had her hand resting on the cam without realizing it, causing it to not lock up as easily as it should.

John-

Extremely sorry to hear about your injury.  Best of luck for 100% recovery!

Its hard to determine what was the issue given the information you provided but here are some things to consider.  However it was a combination of a bit of slack in the system, picking up the belayer a bit from the weight difference, and rope stretch.  A couple take-aways:

1) ~100-lbs weight difference is huge.  She should probably anchor down when belaying you.  Even you just sitting on the rope could pull her off the ground.

2) Rope stretch can be substantial (10' - 20') if a lot of rope is out.  Keep this in mind when climbing in bad fall areas (right off the deck or over ledges) especially with that big of a weight difference in climber to belayer.  Your belayer needs to be extra attentive and keep slack out of the system in these areas.

3) Most gyms wrap top ropes around the top bar twice.  This generates a ton more friction than a rope just running through draws.  This will mask issues with big weight differences in climber to belayer that you will experience outside.

4) The physics don't support you free falling for a three count.

5) 9.7mm single rope is great for top roping.  The weight difference and slack in the system seems to be the real culprit here.

Ask if she was pulled off the ground. If she wasn't, or was only pulled a foot or two, then you have your answer, excessive slack either through negligence or incompetence with an unfamiliar device.

Whenever you are on top rope, or following a climb, and especially if you are moving fast, you need to be paying attention to your slack as you are climbing.  If the belayer did indeed mess up, and didn't stay on top of the slack, then she is only partly to blame.  Yell "UP ROPE!" whenever you notice the rope isn't going up with you.  If your belayer can't hear you, then you have no choice but to wait till the belayer wakes up and pulls in the slack.

If he fell a substantial way before feeling rope stretch, it's a bad belay. I'm a fatso, I have top roped plenty of 80 foot routes and fell in the first 15 feet and I hit the ground. But not hard. The rope stretch is noticeable after about 5 feet of falling and that's with 140 feet of rope out on a 9.2 rope. Belayer doesn't fly up either because the rope stretch absorbs so much of the initial force. 

Length of the rope does not matter, I was just using the fact that you were 3/4 up the route, and unless it REQUIRED a 70 or 80 meter rope to climb, there should be about 100 feet of rope out at the most. The more rope that is out, the more the rope will stretch. If you're doing multi-pitch and climbing the length of the rope for each pitch you could have 180 feet or more rope out to stretch when you fall. Very easy to have 20+ feet of fall with a perfect right belay when that much rope is out. When you have  substantially less than that out and an anchor involved it's a little suspect that rope stretch and a light belayer alone would result in a 15 foot free fall. How long was the route?

She may have been inattentive and it was probably a combination of several not-so-good factors.

But I suspect she left the ground- I weigh 170, and when my 210 lb buddy falls in the gym, I regularly am pulled off the ground. It happens even on toprope, and if he's leading, I have a hot date with the first bolt.

Your situation depends on how much friction there was in the setup- including the anchor and the rope running over rock, which depends on how steep the route is- but man you have about 100 lbs on her. That's huge! An experienced climber should have seen that coming.

Another point to think about- if your belayer isn't keeping up with your motion, slow down.

It sucks you broke a leg for this learning experience. I wish you a speedy recovery!

Went with very experienced friend whose been climbing 12 years. Although sometimes she doesn't know stuff I would expect her to know. Like SERENE for anchors. I'm newbie but built bomber anchor she says she usually lets guys do that stuff

Internalized misogyny aside, this is sketch.

The fact that it's a 70 meter rope is only relevant in that it allows you to toprope a longer climb, not that ropes that are cut into 70 meter segments are stretchier than those cut into 50 or 60 meter segments.  Did the climb require the entire 70 meters to toprope, or was it significantly shorter?  Even if it did require the 70 meters (making it 35 meters high), then if you're 3/4 of the way up, there should be ~44 meters of rope out.  In my experience with a variety of ropes, you shouldn't fall 15-20 feet with 44 meters of rope and hit hard enough to get hurt unless there was considerable slack to begin with...that said, I wouldn't know if your rope had a particularly high degree of elongation at low loads.  Given the weight difference, if there was no friction in the system other than that of the rope over the top carabiner it seems not implausible that she would have been pulled up, but presumably she would have mentioned this if it were enough to be a significant contributing factor to how far you fell.  

Based on what you said, I would say it seems highly likely, though not completely certain that she had excess slack out.  Regardless of the particulars of this accident though, if someone has been climbing for 12 years, but "usually lets guys do" the anchor building stuff, and needs to be reminded to pay attention while belaying, I would conclude that they aren't a safe climber, aren't interested in becoming a safe climber, and consequently probably never will be a safe climber.  Sorry you got hurt - hope you heal fast and get back at it!

Bluewater 9.7 mm (lightning pro) has a static elongation of 8.9% according to their specs. Which is defined as the percent elongation when 80kg is hanging on the rope. If you were 3/4 the of the way up an 80 ft route, you had 80+(80*1/4) = 100 ft of rope out.  And at 220 lb, you are about 100kg. So 8.9% static elongation--e.i. just the rope stretch from 80kg hanging on it, would be close to 9 feet, and it is probably more for you, more bc you are heavier. So we are already accounting for ~10 feet of the fall.

Now, add the fact there were probably couple feet of slack in the system, because she wasn't hauling your ass up, you were climbing. Perfectly reasonable.

And you don't mention if there was any gear on the route, so I'm going to assume that there was nothing clipped anywhere,other than  the 'biners on the anchors, e.i. nothing to create rope drag. In this scenario, a belayer that is half your weight can easily go up 6-8 feet in the air.

There are your 20 feet of a fall already... with no gross belayer error in the picture yet, other than the fact that she belayed you in the first place, without an anchor. And didn't ask you to pre-stretch the rope before you started climbing. And maybe had a touch more slack than she should have... though it is hard to tell on a long route, and if the climber moves fast.

Toproping long routes outside can be dangerous. You aren't the first person who swung into things and broke something in a toprope fall. I have seen people fall from 15+ feet up on toprope, and touch the ground. Gym toproping on shorter walls with stiffer ropes, and the double wrap around the pipe at the anchors really doesn't prepare you for how long a fall can be on stretchy ropes, and without extra rope drag.

I hope you heal quick.