Fell 20' on top rope

I outweigh my wife by almost that much. Even on lead falls I'm never free falling as she goes up in the air. I'm slowing down. Slack in the system or gri-gri locking action was over rode or the OP is mistaken about free falling for a significant distance.

A 20 foot fall that is caught by the rope at 20 feet is perfectly explainable by non- belayer error. It seems like he was caught by a ledge though. If he was traveling downwards with enough force to break his leg at 20 feet, the fall would not be completely arrested until a significantly longer distance than 20 feet. 

Maybe 70 feet..let me look real quick on here. Doesn't say I'm going to say 70-80' most.

That's funny about me climbing fast! I was climbing fast for me. I'm new climber so FOR me I was climbing fast. Which is tortise pace as opposed to snail pace. I'm not upset or in anyway blame her she didn't do it on purpose. She probably got caught unaware is all. I really couldn't think of any other reason.

Thing that bothered me is that she is super climber and that she would never admit it if she did mess up. The fact she called told me she knew it. I thought she was cool with it so I said yeah honey, there had to be some slack in there for me to fall like that. At which point she went into manic rage! Uh oh. Even experienced people make mistakes. 

Anyway I think we can kill this thread. Pretty much know what happened, I survived, and got some good beta. Which is she ain't belaying me again! But she is good girl just the same.

It sounds like your belayer fucked-up.  You said yourself she was not very attentive and not as knowledgeable as she should be. Rope stretching is different than 3 seconds of free fall, if it were rope stretch you would have had some resistance from the rope stretching.  And twenty feet is WAY more than your rope would stretch on an average top rope route (with little to none slack).  The weight difference usually doesn't make that much of a difference with top roping - its not like a lead fall.  You said she was using a new belay device... Maybe she didnt know how to use it..  My advice, pick your partners better, you can't just accept anyone.  And yes, I would never EVER have her belay me again.  Life is too short to waste away nursing injuries. What is her name?

Ryan M Moore wrote:

I outweigh my wife by almost that much. Even on lead falls I'm never free falling as she goes up in the air. I'm slowing down. Slack in the system or gri-gri locking action was over rode or the OP is mistaken about free falling for a significant distance.

On lead you have all the draws you clipped on your way up, creating some friction  when you fall. As best as I can tell, the guy was TRing a route with no gear in place, just the anchor 'biners. The difference in friction can be quite significant.

If the belayer doesn't have rope burns (which I am assuming is the case, or the OP would have mentioned it) I don't think the improper gri-gri locking action is at fault.  Slack in the system and inattention are a possibility, though my calculations get the fall to 20ft without needing to postulate belayer inattentiveness and excessive amount of slack.

We also only have the OP's estimation of "20 feet" of fall. 15 feet can break bones just as well. Heck, 10ft would do it, too.

Nop.

It happens often in the gym, people climb fast and the belay isnt easy so you have to start moving back to avoid slack. but in the rock the ground isnt flat and running  or moving is sometimes not an option. of course it was better that she told him to slow down. but he should have known that when you climb slowly you are less likely to make mistakes.

And why when there is an accident and a female involved, is always the girls fault?

-Climb in peace,  Alexa-

Sorry to hear you got hurt.    But, there is no way you free fell for three seconds. That would equate to about a 100 foot fall. Maybe it just felt that way to you since you were falling and it felt like a really long time.  

Here is an example that may explain some of it. Assuming the route is 80 feet tall, if you were 3/4 of the way up, then there is 100 feet of rope between you and your belayer. The static elongation of most ropes is around 9%. That's just putting bodyweight of 176 pound person hanging on the rope. That would account for around 9 feet of the fall.    In your case, it was somewhat dynamic because you probably fell a few feet just from some slack. So the stretch was probably more than what I just stated. Add two or 3 feet of slack and now you were at 11 or 12 feet.   The belayer got lifted off the ground, that adds another three or four or 5 feet,  sometimes more .

 That doesn't account for the entire length of the fall, though. So it sounds like some other factors may be a place. Possibly the gri gri didn't lock up which is common in low force falls. They have address that in the newest version of the gri gri. But many people have been dropped from these type of falls in the device not locking . Some people don't realize how all the small things can add up to a really long fall. That's why it bothers me to see so much casual laying inside and out. 

Considering your lack of experience, I doubt climbing too fast was an issue. Unless you're going for some redpoint burn on moves you've rehearsed, you won't be climbing too fast.

Oh my God. It's threads like these that are the downfall of the MP forums. 

wonderwoman wrote:

Now, now.  Public shaming is not fair.  You don't live near the guy, so I am willing to bet you don't know the belayer.

Charlotte is not THAT far... I climb down that way some times..

Lena chita wrote:There are your 20 feet of a fall already... with no gross belayer error in the picture yet, other than the fact that she belayed you in the first place, without an anchor. And didn't ask you to pre-stretch the rope before you started climbing. And maybe had a touch more slack than she should have... though it is hard to tell on a long route, and if the climber moves fast.

Toproping long routes outside can be dangerous. You aren't the first person who swung into things and broke something in a toprope fall. I have seen people fall from 15+ feet up on toprope, and touch the ground. Gym toproping on shorter walls with stiffer ropes, and the double wrap around the pipe at the anchors really doesn't prepare you for how long a fall can be on stretchy ropes, and without extra rope drag.

This is inaccurate. No one is falling 20ft because its just the nature of toproping.  It sounds like any number of factors could have come into play, but the most prominent was probably slack in the system.

If anyone is taking 20ft whips while on TR -  You are doing something wrong!

Brian thanks. Don't care to share name one of the things she asked me while she was crying was to not tell anyone. I think she was worried about her rep at the local gym/climbing community. Funny thing is several people have come to her while I was belaying her in gym saying I was doing this or that wrong. But they wouldn't tell me. So after she told me I'd go to them and thank them for the help, but they were weird about it. Very clique. 

She's a good looking girl so guys pay attention and try to be her hero. But when she falls she doesn't move an inch with me belaying her. Even on lead belay I had one guy tell me he'd never seen someone fall such a short distance. I study everything I do like its a science. I fly and I LEARN to be safe. 

I can see how some may think I am putting others in danger by not putting her name out there, but I just don't do that. I'm new to climbing don't know climbers code but she usually practices one night a week with a very good climber and he seems to trust her. So i think it was just me she looks at me as rookie no need to get serious.

I wanted to lead a 5.9 cause it looked easy. I was pretty sure I could do it, but she said she wouldn't  belay me because first clip was too high she couldn't do it, her master partner couldn't do it, and shehad broke her ankle on it. MasterBeta was the climb. So I climbed about 10 feet in my approach shoes and put my hand on first clip and stood there looking at her. 

Anyway really not a good team she overrated herself I think, and underrated me. Not so much my climbing skills I've yet to finish a 5.10, but what I learned studying. Anyway I'd like to just end this. Thanks.

One does not simply end a mountain project thread.

It was probably a combination of many things. It was intially blamed on rope stretch though and even though I'm new, something said "I don't think so". Its all good I just wanted to make sure rope would have caused that.

She is good person, good climber, and a lot of good climbers climb with her and ask her to climb (looks not withstanding) I got the beta I wanted, which was that it wasn't the rope I had.

I'm good with that.

Night all and thanks to you all for helping a new person understand a lot of complicated dynamics!

Oh, how does one stay in shape in a cast for 8 weeks...? ;>)

Ryan M Moore wrote:

One does not simply end a mountain project thread.

This thread shall live on in infamy.

Ryan M Moore wrote:

If so might have been improper use of gri-gri(trying to catch the fall with climber side hand on rope as well as brake side)

No.  The Gri Gri won't fail just because the belayer holds onto the climber's strand.  As long as they have a firm grip on the brake strand, it will lock.  I am well aware of the Petzl webpage that warns against grabbing the climber's strand.  But that same webpage has a video clearly showing the belayer holding onto the climbers strand (while idly standing), as have other videos produced by Petzl in the past.

It is highly unlikely that the GriGri played any role in this accident.

Oh mee...too funny! As long as we can keep our sense of humor well be okay.

All this talk about weight difference, rope stretch, etc. is superflous.  Probably contributed to the accident, but bottom line it was a shit belay.  Your belayer fucked up.  Maybe she was just being inattentive and let too much slack accumulate, or perhaps she threaded her Gri Gri backwards or was holding the cam open (hard to do on a TR belay).  

I hope you heal quick. The advice I would offer to you, is to be more careful in your pre-climb checks and to choose your partners carefully.  The fact that she has been climbing for 12 years but didn't feel comfortable setting up the anchor herself, and would trust that to a new climber with far less experience, is a huge red flag.

The suggestion above that you need to climb slowly to avoid such a situation is wrong.  Whenever you are being belayed, it's wise to keep an eye on the rope, because it's your ass on the line if your belayer fucks up and allows a huge amount of slack to enter the system.  But if you're climbing anywhere near your limit or just cruising and having fun, that is distracting and it's not the climber's responsibility to make sure that part of the system is working.  That's the belayer's responsibility.  And short of some crazy ass speed climbing, any competent belayer should be able to haul in the slack fast enough, regardless of the device or the rope.  

What route were you climbing?

John Conzone wrote:

Oh mee...too funny! As long as we can keep our sense of humor well be okay.

Dude.  I appreciate the mellow approach to life, but you just got dropped and broke your leg.  Maybe keeping your sense of humor about the whole thing and not wanting to take it seriously is the wrong approach?  Under different circumstances you could be paralyzed or dead right now.