Areas with Close Bolts

I seem to remember Tonnere Tower being over-bolted - 1 every 2 feet doesn't sound off the mark. This route is over-bolted, but the description also says it can be lead on gear,

mountainproject.com/v/burie…

Most areas outside NC have close bolts. NC is by far the worst state I have climbed in as far as bolt spacing. I have not climbed at a ton of places on the west coast but everywhere I have been has had bolts really close together.

When I go out west to climb I jump on 5.12+ routes without a second thought. When I am in NC I tend to stick to 5.10 or less for most leads (given there are alot of well protected 5.12+ in NC but still some you risk ground falls).

I never understood how Z-clipping was possible until I left NC.

Pretty much all of Colorado qualifies

ViperScale wrote:Most areas outside NC have close bolts. NC is by far the worst state I have climbed in as far as bolt spacing. I have not climbed at a ton of places on the west coast but everywhere I have been has had bolts really close together. When I go out west to climb I jump on 5.12+ routes without a second thought. When I am in NC I tend to stick to 5.10 or less for most leads (given there are alot of well protected 5.12+ in NC but still some you risk ground falls). I never understood how Z-clipping was possible until I left NC.

I guess that makes sense. I appreciated those few extra bolts on every route I was on. I definitely pushed for harder grades out there than I would in NC as well.

vantage wa and every european crag bolted after the mid 90s come to mind

Joel Allen wrote:Just got back from Shelf Road. If you go to newer crags there expect the bolts to be 2 to 5 feet apart.

The newer crags out here do tend to be very close. I don't necessarily bolt old school but some of the routes at shelf make me chuckle.

You dont have to clip every bolt. I dont think there is a rule saying it.

North Bend, WA (short dry season)

Michael P wrote: I spent a day at a Hong Kong crag and was surprised by the closer bolt spacing compared to PA and WV sport routes. The climbs I did were between 35 and 40 ft and 5 or 6 bolts. The area was developed by the Francis Haden. His website looks like a good resource on bolting new routes and his philosophy is listed as "I choose to equip routes such that bolt placements are reasonably spaced and consistent with the rhythm of the climb. I do not equip climbs with long run-outs simply because the level of difficulty is easy." From the free Ap Lei Chau guidebook pdf: • 675 glue-in titanium bolts • 38 tubes of resin • 123 drill bits • 51 days bolting • 112 routes • 13 Months from start to finish https://www.mountainproject.com/v/the-prow/112396710 his site: https://francishaden.wordpress.com/

Thanks Michael and trust you had a good visit to Hong Kong.

It's worth noting that many climbing areas in Asia, such as Hong Kong, do not have any guaranteed crag access, and are located in regions where attitudes to rock climbing might not be entirely favourable in the event of an accident. These considerations (and others) should be taken into account when developing sport routes with regards to reducing the risk of nasty falls, preventing accidents from run outs that could force crag closure or bring about unwanted attention that could otherwise have been prevented by the 'if it just had 1 more bolt' scenario.

It's ironic that given the initial significant sum of money that goes into bolting a route, the addition of 1 more bolt is insignificant % wise of the total money spent but that 1 extra bolt can have a significant affect on overall spacing and overall enjoyment.

Ap Lei Chau is heavily used by beginners and on the harder lines (5.12s), they are overhanging and typically have hard moves close to the deck, all of this necessitates closer bolt spacing, not least you want to be able to work a crux! Sport climbing should be as safe as reasonably possible given that bolt placement (and numbers of) affect that perhaps more so than anything else.

S.Mckinna wrote: Shelf Road CO

Not only close but just shitty all together besides the new stuff. who wants to traverse 12 ft at the top to clip anchors? really anything down there is pretty close. 

There was a thread recently asking why Euro climbers were so much stronger.  I think this has a large part to do with it, honestly.  It's a lot easier to push your grade and get stronger if you're not facing dangerous falls and/or pointless runout.

Ted Pinson wrote:

There was a thread recently asking why Euro climbers were so much stronger.  I think this has a large part to do with it, honestly.  It's a lot easier to push your grade and get stronger if you're not facing dangerous falls and/or pointless runout.

Stronger muscles, but that's only part of it. Get used to space between bolts and you will be a better climber.

I'm an NC climber and I was really surprised the first time I ventured out. Vantage in WA is pretty nice and also HCR in AR.  HCR even has perma draws and I over heard a rumor not too long ago that the majority of climbers as well as guides lower off gear rather than rappel because it's so well maintained. They justify this because of the fee hcr  charge for a climbing permit. - most of it goes back to maintanence. 

Alex Rosa wrote:

I'm an NC climber and I was really surprised the first time I ventured out. Vantage in WA is pretty nice and also HCR in AR.  HCR even has perma draws and I over heard a rumor not too long ago that the majority of climbers as well as guides lower off gear rather than rappel because it's so well maintained.  . 

Yup, NC's traditions are about as popular and useful as their bathroom laws. Welcome to the new world. 

Many routes in City of Rocks are very friendly with the bolting

• How'd this go a couple pages and no one mentioned Maple Canyon?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Pretty much all of Colorado qualifies

I couldn't agree more. When I moved from NC to Colorado I quickly noticed that the grades were generally softer and the bolts closer. Granted there are exceptions and many old school areas (Eldo, Lumpy, parts of the South Platte) that shirk this ethic but going to Boulder Canyon, Shelf etc... there are many moderates that are absurdly closely bolted. 

I think there is something to be said for both ethics but I know that all my 5.12 clip ups in the west never felt quite as satisfying as the few 5.10a classics I led at Stone Mountain...

Jack Quarless wrote:

Yup, NC's traditions are about as popular and useful as their bathroom laws. Welcome to the new world. 

Going to have to respectfully disagree with your comment. Bathroom laws are lame but NC is predominantly Trad, bolts were only placed where protection is unavailable. I take a lot of pride in learning to climb here, there's a lot of rich history behind many of the crags. 

Some of the routes at enchanted tower have bolts pretty close to each other 

Guys, arguing trad vs sport ethics is pointless.  It's a different appeal and nobody is arguing that your slab routes should have any more than 2 bolts per 100'.  When it comes to sport climbing, however, there's no good reason for large bolt spacing.  It's the same silly argument as stick clipping; nobody thinks you're a badass because you twisted an ankle on a 5.9.