training options near Conway NH?

Zac.St.Jules wrote:Following... You folks think a climbing gym would thrive in Conway?

I don't know but I can tell you I'd be a half-year member, assuming the prices were not substantially more expensive than gyms that are over an hour away. I'd probably also use it in the summer, if there were a lot of rainy days, which there can be up here.

I looked into this the other day, and I couldn't find definite prices mentioned, but it appears to be crazy expensive to start a climbing gym ($500K and up for a place with 30-foot walls). I don't have that kind of money, alas.

The climbing coop in New Paltz apparently burned down about 2 years ago. Now they have a gofundme to rebuild it: gofundme.com/rebuildnpcc

They are looking for $110K to rebuild. They have $9K after 2 years. That's not looking very optimistic.

The page says that they had "over 100" members. Google says the population of New Paltz is 6,924. They also have a state university at New Paltz, which has about 7,000 students enrolled. There must be some overlap...

The population of Conway NH is about 10,000. There is a lot of tourism here, both in winter and summer. Hard to tell if a small bouldering gym like that in New Paltz would work here. It looks to me like the area very much caters to kids with families. Maybe to make it work, it would need to be welcoming to families/kids. I'm kind of puzzled about why it didn't work for Cranmore. It bodes ill for a standalone bouldering gym.

Like Alan, I'd prefer a wall-climbing gym with routes, but I'd take a bouldering gym if it were available.

I think a small bouldering co-op could work in Conway. The local climbing community in Sandpoint, ID, has made it work using that model. The Mount Washington Valley is much larger and should be able to support a modest facility.

dragons wrote:Thanks for the book rec. Are you using the climbing-specific exercises in that book, or other ones as well? Can you tell me more about your workout? About how long does it usually take, and also how many times per week you'll do it? I used to have a free weights routine that I used 3 times a week before I started climbing (I also have an ab routine that I continue to use). After I got injured, I found it difficult to maintain strength because a lot of the exercises aggravated my injury. For example, doing biceps curls messes with my knuckle... I'm trying to build up strength as I recover, without re-injuring myself.

This is where I started in terms of a routine: evergreenpilates.com/athlet…

Over the years I've increased reps and added other pieces to my routine. As an example I've added push-ups and numerous 1/2 sets of 100's to the series listed. I've had stretches where I do the routine twice a week, but I've found for me once a week is about right. It's worth digging deeper into how to engage your body to make the most of a pilates routine. It's more than just engaging your abs and lower back muscles.

As a side note, I kind of have to wonder if you're too concerned about fitness and ignoring technique and maintaining calm while climbing. Damaging joints to climb 5.4 at the Gunks makes me think you might want to take a different approach.

Mike Morin wrote:Damaging joints to climb 5.4 at the Gunks makes me think you might want to take a different approach.

I was not training with rock rings to be able to climb 5.4 at the Gunks. I'm kinda confused about why you surmised that. I was aiming to climb at higher grades, ones that are more overhung, and require more upper body strength. One piece of advice was to do pull-ups. All the climbers that I know can do pull-ups. I cannot. Hence, I trained using rock rings. I don't think I was using them improperly. I may just have really bad tendons.

I still don't actually know how the damage to my knuckles started, but I think it was aggravated by the work with rock rings. I didn't realize it for quite some time, because my knuckles didn't actually hurt while I was using them on the rings.

If you have some advice about how to do overhung routes without the upper body strength that is needed to do a pull-up, I'm all ears.

Apologies, I must have misread your post. I was honestly trying to be helpful, and not a jerk.

This is where I got confused...

dragons wrote:Prior to my injury, I was trying to move into leading 5.4 at the Gunks. I'd like to get better at climbing so that I can do a wider variety of routes.

Therefore I assumed that's what you were training for.

Mike Morin wrote:Apologies, I must have misread your post. I was honestly trying to be helpful, and not a jerk. This is where I got confused... Therefore I assumed that's what you were training for.

Rereading what I said, I can see that I wasn't clear. What I said was "It's a dream of mine to one day do an unassisted pull-up. Prior to my injury, I was trying to move into leading 5.4 at the Gunks. I'd like to get better at climbing so that I can do a wider variety of routes."

What I meant by this is that my strength limits are making it difficult to move up in the grades. I think it's wise to lead 2 grades below what I can follow to avoid getting in trouble, so I'd like to be comfortable on 5.6 to be onsite leading 5.4. 5.6s sometimes require pulling roofs, and I don't see doing that if I can't do even do a pullup. I'm pretty comfortable on 5.6, but I still sometimes fall on them. I was training with pullups to get better on 5.6s.

IIRC every time I've fallen, on lead or following, it was due to my arms just giving out. It happened once on a 5.5, but usually on 5.6 or higher.

Anyway, when I talk to climbing friends about becoming a better climber, they've uniformly recommended pullups for training. I think I'm pretty good at using my feet, when it's possible. I'm sure there's room for improvement there, too - but, one only gets that by climbing. Which is why I want to train over the winter. I can tell that my arm strength has practically vanished, and I need to get it back to be able to climb again in the spring, or I'll be spending all summer doing Beginner's Easy on Whitehorse. It's a very nice route, but I'd like some more variety.

Good footwork never hurts dragons..especially in NH !

When things dry out try some of the routes at the left side of Sundown,,very nice 5.6-ish good gear and easy to tr..also have somebody lead you up Toe Crack at Cathedral 5.7 ? not really, it has maybe 3 moves and then good foothold all the way. This stuff is slightly steeper, but lotsa footwork involved

and Bombardment...really good jams and feet all the way

dragons wrote: Rereading what I said, I can see that I wasn't clear. What I said was "It's a dream of mine to one day do an unassisted pull-up. Prior to my injury, I was trying to move into leading 5.4 at the Gunks. I'd like to get better at climbing so that I can do a wider variety of routes." What I meant by this is that my strength limits are making it difficult to move up in the grades. I think it's wise to lead 2 grades below what I can follow to avoid getting in trouble, so I'd like to be comfortable on 5.6 to be onsite leading 5.4. 5.6s sometimes require pulling roofs, and I don't see doing that if I can't do even do a pullup. I'm pretty comfortable on 5.6, but I still sometimes fall on them. I was training with pullups to get better on 5.6s. IIRC every time I've fallen, on lead or following, it was due to my arms just giving out. It happened once on a 5.5, but usually on 5.6 or higher. Anyway, when I talk to climbing friends about becoming a better climber, they've uniformly recommended pullups for training. I think I'm pretty good at using my feet, when it's possible. I'm sure there's room for improvement there, too - but, one only gets that by climbing. Which is why I want to train over the winter. I can tell that my arm strength has practically vanished, and I need to get it back to be able to climb again in the spring, or I'll be spending all summer doing Beginner's Easy on Whitehorse. It's a very nice route, but I'd like some more variety.

North Conway can be tough for easier grades - but they're out there:

-Cormier-Magness on Whitehorse is really nice. Only one move on the entire route that requires upper body strength strength, the rest is slab. Try it in approach shoes for an extra challenge. Standard Route is nice too, but I prefer Cormier.

-Bombardment on Cathedral It's a 5.8 but I think it's soft for a Cathedral 5.8. It's slabby, so you don't need a huge amount of arm strength - more technique than strength (the opposite of Pine Tree Eliminate). Try Age Before Beauty to get to the base of Bombardment.. it's harder 5.9ish slab, but you'll have a bolt at your chest through the hard moves... almost like being on top rope.

-Upper Refuse on Cathedral. Again, lower angle... fun climbing, not a lot of arm strength required. May a move or two to get off of the tree belay. Climb Age Before Beauty - Bombardment and then walk over to the Upper Refuse start. A fun linkup.

-Thin-Air on Cathedral Lower angle as well with the exception of the "crux" 3rd pitch - the 3rd pitch is a little more Gunks in style with a few physical moves, but nothing crazy.

-Endeavour at White's Ledge. Another multi pitch moderate that doesn't require a lot of arm strength. The upper pitches are just plain fun.

-Funhouse is the other classic moderate route up there, but the start of the first pitch (in the corner) is a little more physical.. it's not hard, but you'll need to use some upper body.

john strand wrote:Good footwork never hurts dragons..especially in NH!

I know... I will probably find it easier to improve on slab, but there's a lot more to choose from if you have other skills. I'd love to be able to do some of the easier overhanging routes at Rumney, for example.

john strand wrote:When things dry out try some of the routes at the left side of Sundown,,very nice 5.6-ish good gear and easy to tr

FWIW, "When Dad's Run Free" and "Rock Garden" (5.4s) are both a ton of fun (although sadly too short). I wonder if you mean "Stealing Candy From a Baby" which is listed at 5.7 now. I see these 5.6s at Sundown: "Stiletto", "Miss Scarlett...", "Bon Vivants Wall", "The Potato Chip", "Shake and Bake", "Terra Infirma". But none of those are to the left (by which I assume you mean Lost Horizon area).

john strand wrote:also have somebody lead you up Toe Crack at Cathedral 5.7 ? not really, it has maybe 3 moves and then good foothold all the way. This stuff is slightly steeper, but lotsa footwork involved and Bombardment...really good jams and feet all the way

Cool, I had not seen Toe Crack before. I have followed someone up Bombardment, and yes, it was a great climb! When I followed it, it seemed easier than 5.8, and I thought I could probably lead it without being scared to death because there's so much room for pro. Things always seem easier when following, of course.

But yeah, I know there are climbs out there that are possible for me. However, you can do so many more climbs in most areas once you can lead in the 5.7-5.8 range.

Good luck,, I have always been a big fan of easy bouldering as well,,(because) even in my prime, 5-8 pull ups was my max.

ChrisN wrote:Cormier-Magness on Whitehorse is really nice. Only one move on the entire route that requires upper body strength strength, the rest is slab.

Yes, and I've swapped leads on that route a couple times. It's especially fun because it's less runout than most of the other routes.

ChrisN wrote:Standard Route is nice too, but I prefer Cormier.

I've also swapped leads on Standard Route, and it is indeed much fun.

ChrisN wrote:Bombardment on Cathedral It's a 5.8 but I think it's soft for a Cathedral 5.8. It's slabby, so you don't need a huge amount of arm strength - more technique than strength (the opposite of Pine Tree Eliminate).

I've followed the same person up Bombardment and Pine Tree Eliminate. The former I actually thought I might be able to lead, while the latter was a hang-fest for me.

ChrisN wrote:Try Age Before Beauty to get to the base of Bombardment.. it's harder 5.9ish slab, but you'll have a bolt at your chest through the hard moves... almost like being on top rope.

Mountainproject puts this at 10a, yikes :)

ChrisN wrote:Upper Refuse on Cathedral. Again, lower angle... fun climbing, not a lot of arm strength required. May a move or two to get off of the tree belay.

I've led P1 of this (it was one of my very first leads, and scared the crap out of me) and followed the rest. Yes, I think I could lead this.

ChrisN wrote:Thin-Air on Cathedral Lower angle as well with the exception of the "crux" 3rd pitch - the 3rd pitch is a little more Gunks in style with a few physical moves, but nothing crazy.

I've followed someone on Thin Air. I think I need to get a better lead head before leading this one.

ChrisN wrote:Endeavour at White's Ledge. Another multi pitch moderate that doesn't require a lot of arm strength. The upper pitches are just plain fun.

OK good to know.

ChrisN wrote:Funhouse is the other classic moderate route up there, but the start of the first pitch (in the corner) is a little more physical.. it's not hard, but you'll need to use some upper body.

OK good beta, thx.

john strand wrote:Good luck,, I have always been a big fan of easy bouldering as well,,(because) even in my prime, 5-8 pull ups was my max.

Well heck I'd be happy if I could just do 1 :/ I'm sure I'll never get to your climbing level, but I will certainly keep trying :) Plenty of fun can be had on the journey.

You might consider dieting if your bodyweight to strength ratio is not allowing you to do pull-ups.

Troy S wrote:You might consider dieting if your bodyweight to strength ratio is not allowing you to do pull-ups.

No doubt this is good advice for some. I weigh ~ 100 lbs.

Well dragons, if you only weigh 100 pounds, sounds like you will be able to progress no problem. I would not worry about how many pull ups you can do as a measure of how hard you climb.

If I were you and your goal is to climb "harder" then it sounds like you need to just climb more often. The best way to do this is to climb at a gym...necessary evil in my opinion. The climbing gym is the best modern tool for getting better technique and climbing with frequency.

If driving to the gym is too far, and climbing rock in new england year round is not realistic, then it might be time to reevaluate your goals with climbing.Like maybe focus on just having fun and not worrying about what grade you climb.

I live in Vermont and know what its like to have a limited outdoor climbing season, but I climb in a gym 3-4 times a week, and when spring comes around it makes climbing outside a lot better.

DRusso wrote:I would not worry about how many pull ups you can do as a measure of how hard you climb.

I'm not trying to measure how hard I can climb. I'm trying to use pull ups as a training tool so that I can climb harder.

DRusso wrote:climbing rock in new england year round is not realistic

In this thread, there's some contention about whether or not climbing outdoor year round in NH is realistic. I have found a bouldering area that might work for me during the winter. Several posts in the thread mention specific areas that might work, too.

DRusso wrote:Like maybe focus on just having fun and not worrying about what grade you climb.

I am trying to have fun. But my options for fun are limited to just a few routes right now. If I can climb harder, then I'll be able to climb a wider variety of routes. Hence, more fun.

Unless your fingers are super strong, I'd recommend training on a hangboard for the next couple months. It sounds like going to a climbing gym isn't practical for you and right now the temps are not going to allow for much outdoor mileage.

Buy this, you'll thank me later.
trango.com/p-294-rock-prodi…

That does look nice. I have this hangboard: metoliusclimbing.com/projec…

I have a pulley system to do assisted pull ups.

Sounds like you're all set on equipment but if you're interested in learning about training for climbing, I'd recommend that book.