Chipping Ethics

The great dihedral in VT 11a pin scars. this thing is so beat out you can see the pin scars from the road a half mile away. interestingly enough the locals have all kinds of love hate issues with bolts....

we are all guilty...

I once had a conversation with one of the south's great old hard trad masters. His words were" treat the rock as a girl that catches your eye, you can romance her, get to know her and learn every nook and cranny or some do as some have simply go out and rape the stone" . If you chip it's wrong that's the discussion here not the hypocrisy of other actions. The question is Is it wrong to intentionally enhance the rock to make it easier for yourself and the answer is hell yes it's wrong.

well then if you have ever clipped a bolt or a piton or put your finger in a pin flare or placed a nut in a pin flare then you are guilty as well......

No that does not make you guilty as well. If you aren't the person that did it you are not guilty. That logic well, it isn't logic at all. It takes a different type of person to harm nature. That's like calling a prostitutes staving child guilty for her actions because he eats the bread his mother sold herself to be able to obtain.

DanielHart wrote:No that does not make you guilty as well. If you aren't the person that did it you are not guilty. That logic well, it isn't logic at all. It takes a different type of person to harm nature. That's like calling a prostitutes staving child guilty for her actions because he eats the bread his mother sold herself to be able to obtain.

No dude, the analogy would not be a child that cannot fend for itself but the Pimp who capitalizes on the act and calls her a whore.

There are thousands and thousands and thousands of rock climbs that do not have any loose/dangerous rock removed, dirt gardened, flora and fauna displaced, bolts placed, pin scars or lichen removed.

People don't like those routes and greatly prefer something "comfortized".

But I bet you drive to the crag on roads that leave scars on a mountainside that will last 100,000 years in a car made of steel that entire mountains have been destroyed to mine the iron ore and millions killed for the oil it burns spewing poison in the air...and consider yourself pure.

King Tut has this figured out.....

Seriously if you are going to be all high and mighty don't climb ANY routes that have bolts on them. Otherwise STFU ;)

Nick- i don't think those pins scars are intentional ? if so, they should be larger.

Every single person who has done an f/a has damaged the rock in some way,,that's just what happens. Personally i have tried very hard to not alter things that much.....form your own opinion or do your own f/a's

Nick Goldsmith wrote:King Tut has this figured out.....

"Ho-man, that is a beautiful finger lock, so smooth and locker..."

"Dude, that's a pin scar...."

"God Damn Tom Higgins!"

"Um, he did the FFA of this route..."

"What a pioneer!"

"And hammered pins in it..."

"WHORE".

"established the first 5.11 in Yosemite...."

"A true disciple!"

"But still placed pins in the crack...slowly making it easier and easier..."

"DEGENERATE"

"Dude, bring the 4-Runner to the Base its too far to walk...some tunnels and blasted thoroughfares would make it easier...wonder what that granite quarry back behind the bushes looks like?"

"Be sure to crank the AC, its 80 degrees today!"

"Hand me that Made in China Goretex Jacket, I feel a drizzle coming on..."

"Glad those children are working overtime!"

"Route Chippers are an Abomination of Nature"

"Not so much, but your average American sure is in denial."

And yea, I did the FA of Sons of Yesterday the route above Serenity Crack that currently together makes up the most popular multi-pitch 5.10 in Yosemite so I am utterly complicit.

Thanks to Tom Higgins et al.

ps not suggesting that Tom intentionally made the route easier. BUT he did place pins in the route many times (was all they had) and certainly was aware that the route was being made easier in the process. Tom has posted that on the FFA the route was originally harder, but settled down to 5.10d as a result of continued pin placements in the crux after the FFA of Serenity Crack. Finally "clean" gear placements stopped the crux from getting easier, now traffic from feet smearing next to the crack are polishing it slowly, making it harder...

john strand wrote:Nick- i don't think those pins scars are intentional ? if so, they should be larger. Every single person who has done an f/a has damaged the rock in some way,,that's just what happens. Personally i have tried very hard to not alter things that much.....form your own opinion or do your own f/a's

^^^ This. Don't kid yourself. We all have impact. Every bit of lichen removed, chalk used, bolt clipped, cam placed, rope used, shoes (there are children involved in rubber harvest and shoe making the world over) makes us complicit in environmental degradation and child labor.

Yet you still climb ? The overall enviromental impact of climbing is low compared to a lot of other activities.

This thread is also about chipping..not enviromental impact

john strand wrote:Yet you still climb ? The overall enviromental impact of climbing is low compared to a lot of other activities. This thread is also about chipping..not enviromental impact

If you want to preserve the original state of a rock climb don't climb it.

Chipping is altering the rock to make it easier. Using a chisel is just one (faster) way to do it, so I agree it is a question of degree/rate of impact, but no climber is pure. You may think your impact is low, but when you see the lichen scars from space on Serenity/SoY then whether one person chipped or thousands climbed it has little distinction.

And yes, I still climb, but not in denial. Chipping is just one form of environmental impact.

Its really funny when they have bolt wars in Noth conway when what they really should be doing is burning down the hotel and re foresting the golf course so that we can have free camping at the base of Whitehorse again ;)

John, they look huge from a distance but the way the rock broke off shure didn't leave much to get your finger into........

It's atough 11A for sure

King- I am pure,, the lichen grows back and all that's left are a few crusted over bolts.....usually

john strand wrote:It's atough 11A for sure King- I am pure,, the lichen grows back and all that's left are a few crusted over bolts.....usually

Its all a question of degree and judgment and shades of gray.

Some are artists, others are hacks.

One man's chopper flake is another's key feature of the route.

of a chipped route not that long ago in RedRock. Oddly enough it was an already established climb that had like 30 something new holds chipped into it and then had a few bolts added.

Nicholas Gillman wrote: Here's an example of a chipped route not that long ago in RedRock. Oddly enough it was an already established climb that had like 30 something new holds chipped into it and then had a few bolts added.

Yep, total hack job. Should never be tolerated.

The way to do it is remove the bolts and patch the holes.

The route has been destroyed and should be removed as an example.