Plant based lifestyle. Anyone?

Altered Ego wrote:JNE, Why are you so hung up on this completely irrelevant issue? Even if you were right, which you are not, no vegan needs to eat soy anyway. Just let it go. Your pointless discussion is distracting from the real issue, which is that all people must change to plant-based diet before the planet is completely destroyed. Eating meat is simply not sustainable on any level. Animal agriculture is the single biggest environmental issue creating more green house gases, destroying more rain forests, consuming more water, causing more species extinction, using more land, requiring more fossil fuels, polluting more water, destroying more ecosystems than anything else on the planet. Far beyond fossil fuels. We produce enough food to feed every starving human on the planet but is instead feeding livestock. If anyone cares even the slightest bit about the environment the single easiest thing they can do in their lives that will have the biggest positive impact is to adopt a vegan diet. Eating meat is responsible for all the leading causes of death in this country aside from accidents and is putting a huge burden on our health care system that we are all paying for. The animal agriculture industry is influencing and controlling our political system on so many levels that animal rights activists are being monitored by the FBI as a top terrorist threat in the US. The reality is that if people actually knew the truth about the meat and dairy industry and the harmful effects on our health very few would continue to consume those products. I strongly urge people to take some time and watch some videos and educate themselves. There is no excuse for willful ignorance these days with so much information at our fingertips. There are good documentaries on Netflix and all over YouTube. It is quite easy to find this stuff. cowspiracy.com/facts/

"Food for us comes from our relatives, whether they have wings or fins or roots."

Are you actually 16?

To reverse the trends, LaDuke advocates restoring systems that have long been considered sacred. "Food for us comes from our relatives, whether they have wings or fins or roots," said the Harvard graduate at a recent TEDx Twin Cities talk. "That is how we consider food. Food has a culture. It has a history. It has a story. It has relationships."

Rather than rely on food growth hundreds or thousands of miles away from patented and genetically modified seeds, LaDuke has been working to restore old, diverse varieties of foods. One food plant she has successfully brought back is called Bear Island Flint Corn. Barely grown a few years ago, she received a few handfuls from a grower. Now the reservation has entire fields of this hardy variety, which can be grown without irrigation, is able to withstand Minnesota's frosts and doesn't break in high winds — weather conditions under which Monsanto's Roudup-Ready corn fails.

"Our plan on this is to grow as much corn as our ancestors did, and the foods our ancestors grew," LaDuke wrote. "It turns out, these foods are roughly twice as high in protein, and two to three times more nutritious than anything you can get at the store."

She says this not only allows tribes to take control of their own food and economies, it also has a potentially global effect. "If we moved from industrialized agriculture to re-localized organic agriculture, we could sequester about one quarter of the carbon moving into the air and destroying our glaciers, oceans, forests and lands." On the reverse side of the equation, she says that diverse crops are more likely to survive in this time of changing climate, when many corn fields in the Midwest are suffering debilitation droughts.

H,

What is your point?

Altered Ego wrote:To reverse the trends, LaDuke advocates restoring systems that have long been considered sacred. "Food for us comes from our relatives, whether they have wings or fins or roots," said the Harvard graduate at a recent TEDx Twin Cities talk. "That is how we consider food. Food has a culture. It has a history. It has a story. It has relationships." Rather than rely on food growth hundreds or thousands of miles away from patented and genetically modified seeds, LaDuke has been working to restore old, diverse varieties of foods. One food plant she has successfully brought back is called Bear Island Flint Corn. Barely grown a few years ago, she received a few handfuls from a grower. Now the reservation has entire fields of this hardy variety, which can be grown without irrigation, is able to withstand Minnesota's frosts and doesn't break in high winds — weather conditions under which Monsanto's Roudup-Ready corn fails. "Our plan on this is to grow as much corn as our ancestors did, and the foods our ancestors grew," LaDuke wrote. "It turns out, these foods are roughly twice as high in protein, and two to three times more nutritious than anything you can get at the store." She says this not only allows tribes to take control of their own food and economies, it also has a potentially global effect. "If we moved from industrialized agriculture to re-localized organic agriculture, we could sequester about one quarter of the carbon moving into the air and destroying our glaciers, oceans, forests and lands." On the reverse side of the equation, she says that diverse crops are more likely to survive in this time of changing climate, when many corn fields in the Midwest are suffering debilitation droughts. H, What is your point?

I also asked if you are sixteen. Respectfully.

Yer gonna die

Jonathan Cunha wrote:Yer gonna die

You sense a street brawl? :-)

Maybe. Maybe not.

Passionate sixteen year old, happy to talk!

Lying jerk? Maybe....not.

H,

No. Why does it matter? Respectfully.

The point in quoting your avatar, is that there are no sustainable agricultural systems that do not include animals. Vegan is a modern day construct.

The native corn I am helping to protect is Oneida.

Sorry, not directed at anyone. More of a joke in regards to the OP's "Plant Based lifestyle"

Hope you are all having a nice new year!

climbing friend,

you all are stopping having the fat rolls of considerable size please, so my cost of the healthinsurance it goes down.

Altered Ego wrote:JNE, Why are you so hung up on this completely irrelevant issue? Even if you were right, which you are not, no vegan needs to eat soy anyway. Just let it go. Your pointless discussion is distracting from the real issue, which is that all people must change to plant-based diet before the planet is completely destroyed. Eating meat is simply not sustainable on any level. Animal agriculture is the single biggest environmental issue creating more green house gases, destroying more rain forests, consuming more water, causing more species extinction, using more land, requiring more fossil fuels, polluting more water, destroying more ecosystems than anything else on the planet. Far beyond fossil fuels. We produce enough food to feed every starving human on the planet but is instead feeding livestock. If anyone cares even the slightest bit about the environment the single easiest thing they can do in their lives that will have the biggest positive impact is to adopt a vegan diet. Eating meat is responsible for all the leading causes of death in this country aside from accidents and is putting a huge burden on our health care system that we are all paying for. The animal agriculture industry is influencing and controlling our political system on so many levels that animal rights activists are being monitored by the FBI as a top terrorist threat in the US. The reality is that if people actually knew the truth about the meat and dairy industry and the harmful effects on our health very few would continue to consume those products. I strongly urge people to take some time and watch some videos and educate themselves. There is no excuse for willful ignorance these days with so much information at our fingertips. There are good documentaries on Netflix and all over YouTube. It is quite easy to find this stuff. cowspiracy.com/facts/

I agree that soy is not necessary for either a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle, and I want to point out its potential harmful effects for young people. You belittle this important issue by treating it dismissively. Education and widespread financial enfranchisement is a better solution, as educated people with their basic needs met tend to make the correct decisions for themselves and thus incidentally the environment around them as well.

As far as meat is concerned, I agree with you as long as you substitute "industrial animal agriculture" for "animal agriculture". I think a big part of the solution going forward is not only for people especially in Western cultures to eat less meat but also to raise as much livestock as possible in a free-range manner like Joe Salatin does, and by using available grassland for sustainable free-range grazing. Something is going to eat those ungulates no matter what anyway.

I once knew a Vegan who also got into CrossFit.
His self opinion went into criticality and he transcended dimensions. At least that's what we told the Douglas County sheriff investigating his disappearance.

Friends don't let friends do Crossfit.

Old lady H wrote:The point in quoting your avatar, is that there are no sustainable agricultural systems that do not include animals. Vegan is a modern day construct. The native corn I am helping to protect is Oneida.

H, I'm not quite sure what you're going for here. There have been vegetarian cultures since the dawn of humanity, and agriculture is a relatively modern innovation, so I'd hardly say veganism is a modern day construct. Animal Ethics/rights perhaps, but there are many other reasons for going vegetarian/vegan that are hardly modern (aside from the ecological one, but that's in response to a modern problem).

What Ego is saying isn't really in dispute...agriculture is overwhelmingly the #1 cause of climate change, mostly due to, hilariously enough, cow farts. (Methane is actually a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2). Cultivation has been somewhat sustainable up until now due to smaller populations (and more sustainable traditional farming practices), but the advent of modern day factory farming and the modern American meat-every-meal diet have resulted in an output that is simply not sustainable. Add water costs and exponential population growth, and it's not a question of if the system collapses, but when. Even if you don't accept the overwhelming evidence of man-based climate change, there's the simple factor of population vs arable land. It requires vastly greater resources to raise cattle than to grow crops (cows have to eat), and that resource isn't getting any bigger yet our population is growing exponentially. GMOs have actually provided a pretty good stopgap by increasing agricultural efficiency and it's always a fun thought to consider how many people would have starved to death if not for them, but even that has its limits.

Bottom line: unless we somehow decelerate population growth, there will come a time where using arable land for animal husbandry will cease to exist...or we will.

Anyways, let's go climb some rocks, people!

I agree Ted. AlteredEgo proffers the biggest environmental issue is animal agriculture. I say, as an extreme example, if only 1,000 people lived on the earth they can agriculture animals all they want with no noticable detrimental environmental effects. Thus, the biggest environmental issue, no matter your beef (whether animal ag, greenhouse gas, trash, urban sprawl) the issue is too many people.

I had a girlfriend that convinced me to become vegetarian believe me, at the moment and looking at her, it made logic.

I´ve always been a big and heavy guy but could climb really good (for the size). used to have a lot of strength, and never got injured (just hit an ankle on a fall once). Pinching, and small ledges where easy to grab for me and slopers where my weak holds. A climber friend who happens to be a doctor and was all interested in performance, injuries and all BS complements of climbing (I think that even more interested in that sort of stuff over really climbing and he sometimes writes in MP forums about this type of matters (I know you are going to read this Tom)) Was surprised that I didn’t got injuries in my fingers and shoulders. And he being slim, had to tape his finger joints due to previous annoyance. If we went crack climbing at the time I had the advantage to ignore pain and keep pushing.

When I started the vegetarian diet, after six months I was feeling a lot lighter (didn’t actually lose weight in those six months) and was climbing better in roofs and could stick to slopers (maybe that slimy stuff found in plants got in my skin I don´t know) So yes my climbing was improving not a really big difference at first but it was and I wasn't even climbing more than before because I was hanging out with my vegetarian girl and she didn’t like climbing. Then after the first six months I started to lose weight. Got really light and by month 10 was climbing 5.12s, and started to feel things I never felt before.

Like bubbles in the shoulders and skin pain, and suddenly that fire that kept me going while in a route wasn't that strong. Then in my back I started to have muscle pain only easing when doing sports. The odd part is that I was still improving and got to climb in the 5.12s fluidly but now recovering was taking longer, waking up early was harder and then a finger injury came; first a POP sound then a feeling of drops going to the wrist.

I was injured due to climbing...my friend told me to recover and my girl was there to support me. So I stopped climbing for a long long time. To make the story short, those years I felt like in a dream where you don’t wake up and everything is perfect. My doctor climbing friend eventually was climbing very well and we got distanced since climbing was what got us together. At some point I recover of the finger injury didn’t really know when and didn’t care because but somehow wasn’t interested in climbing anymore. Only cared of my girl, world peace and social equality (vegetarian stuff).

My doctor climbing friend 5 years later gave me a birthday present. it was a 3 used movie pack about climbing: First ascent, the sharp end and wide boyz (if you see the 80´s and 90´s movies of climbing they are disgusting and only people to watch it are maybe climbers and the producers) this movies where so good, first modern movies I watched but all of them so good, they took me out of the dream and now I wanted nightmares again. I wanted pain, suffering and trouble. I wanted to live.

Went to the mirror and saw a nice shaved guy the one that doesn’t get in the subway and you see him on a fancy car and makes u just want to punch him. Where was the dirt bag trashy badass?. I tried to punch him only hitting the mirror and with my fist full blood went back to bed don´t know why just started to jerk off and told to my girl to give me a blowjob which she refused to.
I broke up with her. Started to climb again, gradually introducing meats in my diet. It was a slow transition but I started to feel with energy.

There are sheep’s in the world and there are butchers I guess I am the later.

I'm going to ignore the previous posts and give you my own experience. I cut out eggs and chicken this last March, all other meats in June and have since been making my way to a complete vegan diet. Along with this, I eat a fairly high amount of carbs. I have had ALMOST only positive results. With that being said, I 100% recommend taking a multivitamin everyday and being cognizant that you get enough iron.

It is also necessary to point out that I made the change in my diet primarily for environmental and sustainability reasons, so your success with a plant based diet may be different from my own version of success.

Just try it out for a bit, and see how you feel.

For those who are vegetarian, where/how do you get your protein? And, do you get the "suggested" 1.4-1.8g/lb lean muscle (or whatever it is)?

Jon W wrote:For those who are vegetarian, where/how do you get your protein? And, do you get the "suggested" 1.4-1.8g/lb lean muscle (or whatever it is)?

I am glad this thread is back on track.

Here are my 2 coppers:

I am not fully vegetarian. I have a set of dietary rules that I have self-imposed (largely for sustainability and ethical reasons) that severely restrict my meat intake. I still regularly consume dairy and eggs, which, along with lentils and beans, provide me with enough protein for day to day life. On occasion, I will eat meat, but it's a very minor source of protein for me. However, I consider myself to be an athlete, which means I prefer to get more protein (~1g/lb of bodyweight) than recommended by the USDA. I get some of this through whey protein powder, but in all honesty, most of it just comes from eating more of what I usually do, which also helps meet my calorie requirements, which are also higher with my climbing...

As for its effects on performance, I don't think it has significantly improved or detracted from my climbing performance in and of itself. Those gains have come from training and being conscientious about my diet, not the nature of that diet per se.

It seems like we have fairly similar approaches to diet. I generally try to limit my meat consumption and only consume high quality/ethically raised meat. Although the organic labeling system is problematic, it's unfortunately as good as it gets unless you're buying straight from the farmer. This has the twofold advantage of supporting more sustainable practices and limiting my intake, as it tends to be more expensive. The hardest thing about going vegan for me would be whey...my standard workout recovery meal is a whey protein shake made with milk. Tried soy protein one time...f$&@ing disgusting (plus I instantly grew man boobs and joined the phytoestrogen army).

i bet your dump will be really smooth... like the kind that doesn't require TP.