Rapping of one bolt

Paul Hutton wrote:I just followed the hyperlink to the route that has caused a disturbance in our peace. 5.4, with a down scramble. :/ Really? Rap rings aaaaall along the way.

1st thing I did, was to look up the person posting and the target climb.
long before I ever posted. The Pinnacles, yeah I had to climb there a few times
It extensive, not newcomer friendly and better in the 5.9 and up grades where the cobbles and pinches are more secure (usually)

Anyway . . . .
Yup, seems trollish ?

check if this troll was real or just a noobish troll. The climb, the approach, the setting, I'm still leaning to the troll but if ianna , the OP, is really a beginner asking such a question; I fear for the lack of comprehension of the simple systems that climbers use to make it a less Risky pass-time.

Michael Schneider wrote: 1st thing I did, was to look up the person posting and the target climb. long before I ever posted. The Pinnacles, yeah I had to climb there a few times It extensive, not newcomer friendly and better in the 5.9 and up grades where the cobbles and pinches are more secure (usually) Anyway . . . . Yup, seems trollish ? check if this troll was real or just a noobish troll. The climb, the approach, the setting, I'm still leaning to the troll but if ianna , the OP, is really a beginner asking such a question; I fear for the lack of comprehension of the simple systems that climbers use to make it a less Risky pass-time.

I've done a lot of multi pitch climbing without asking for advice. If I'm asking for advice, I'm about to get on a Class IV route or bigger. This OP is asking about a 4-pitch sport route. I thought "this must be some serious gnar if they have to get advice from the trusty old veterans on here". Then I see that someone had posted that the approach is 0.9 miles, which I was curious about, since the OP stated that hiking a 2nd rope in was, just, gonna NOT happen. And the thread is getting up to 6 pages long (at that point in time). I didn't think combing through 6 pages worth of text to MAYBE find the route's name, or the hyperlink, with weak, slow cellular service would leave me unpissed if I turned up nothing.

Dick

So ya ,calling me a dick? Grow da EF up! I can see that you want to argue. I'll not be back but here although you said you already checked it out

Anna Lou wrote:Route: mountainproject.com/v/costa…

Yup !
Hard to find on page 4
mountainproject.com/v/rappi…

Michael Schneider wrote:So ya ,calling me a dick? Grow da EF up! I can see that you want to argue. I'll not be back but here although you said you already checked it out Yup ! Hard to find on page 4 mountainproject.com/v/rappi…

I just identify stupid when I see it or hear it. It all started when you asked if I was talking to you, but you hadn't posted yet. I couldn't have been talking to you. You enjoy the arguing. You fabricated a something from absolutely nothing. You walked into a bar and asked the first dude you saw why he looked at you funny. And your grammar and punctuation are a bit short of up to par. A lot of progress I made in trying to get us to understand each other better.

You should make a route page that fills people in on what I've uncovered about you, so they conclude that relationship before it becomes what we have now.

Make a tag line out of 300lb braided fishing line, fits in your pocket, problem solved.

T Roper wrote:Make a tag line out of 300lb braided fishing line, fits in your pocket, problem solved.

After braiding 3 of those together, that would actually work pretty well, maybe.

Patrick Vernon wrote: That in mind I would suggest the "Texas Two Step" clusterfuck

Or you could just leave a biner or two and get on with your day.

It was a joke Jason.

That's a relief.

Obviously the Texas two step is for shorter rappel distances where the rope can be tripled, but it seems the rope would abrade the sling and cut through if there is much back and forth movement. Then the sling is compromised. I'd just leave a biner. I have found some disgusting bail biners, as well as biners on sale (I can't resist sale prices) I can't wait to get rid of.

Ana Tine wrote:Obviously the Texas two step is for shorter rappel distances where the rope can be tripled...

I see you too have climbed at Reimers...

wow! this whole thing is pretty absurd. RG nailes it. carry the extra rope Less Than A Mile... take one look at the 15ft down scramble and chalk it up to weight training.... Anna tine I sincerly hope you are troling. 35+ years of climbing, over 50 first ascents, a whole lot of fun had and I have never had even a remote desire to learn something as unnesicary and dangerous as the texas rope trick....

s.price wrote:Just rap off the bolt already. Did that say I identify stupid or I identify as stupid?

That made me laugh!

Nick Goldsmith wrote:RG nailes it. carry the extra rope Less Than A Mile... take one look at the 15ft down scramble and chalk it up to weight training....

I gotta admit - this is a damn compelling solution to the original question.

Nick Goldsmith wrote: RG nailes it. carry the extra rope Less Than A Mile... take one look at the 15ft down scramble and chalk it up to weight training....

I'll take credit for enthusiastic cheerleading but gunkiemike proposed this in the second response to the OP...

rgold wrote: I'll take credit for enthusiastic cheerleading but gunkiemike proposed this in the second response to the OP...

Ah yes, I see that now ... a reading lesson for me.

Gunkiemike wrote:Something to consider - have a second rope on the ground. Everyone but the last person down does the full rap on one strand. Then tie the second rope to the rap line, last one up at the anchor pulls it up and raps normally on both strands.

Likely, if the knot gets stuck somewhere, it can be managed - or prevented - by some combination of the persons on either end.

rgold wrote: It is a fun non-committing route to which you are planning to add a possibly significant level of commitment. You are planning to use emergency extraction techniques---methods that for all their usefulness have resulted in fatal accidents to experienced climbers---when it seems as if your experience level may not prepare you for all the hitches and gotchas that can go wrong. This when all you have to do is carry a second rope on the approach and leave it at the base. I really try to avoid name-calling and shouting, but reason doesn't seem to be working, and it is possible, even on the internet, to feel some responsibility for the effects of a thread's advice. So here goes: what you are now planning is JUST PLAIN STUPID. Bring the extra rope fer crap's sake.

rgold wrote: Oh fer god's sake. .. No raps off a single bolt and transferring from hanging on rappel to the bolt, no extra cord extensions and biner blocks, no Texas rope tricks or leaver biners or quicklinks or downclimbing the last fifteen feet. Jeez!

rgold wrote: ... for this climb and this party the whole "exercise" embraces extra risks in order to avoid carrying a second rope less than a mile to the base of route. If that isn't practically the definition of faulty judgement, I don't know what is.

Rapping and anchor-switching on a single bolt were the initial questions and I think that Anna made it clear that she got the message that this was not great. She also clearly read the whole thread and it seems to me that it's pretty evident that the Petzl-style self-arrest technique (and the safer two-bolt anchor-switch that goes with it) is really just a self-rescue technique that may be used if you're familiar with it and in case the proverbial s*** hits the fan but not great for normal use either.

However, it seems to me that a rope left at the bottom of a multipitch is at risk of getting stolen. I have no problem with suggesting this option as one of the possible solutions to the OP questions, and a pretty simple one at that, as many others have done. But I take issue with your insistence that this is the only solution that makes sense.

Regarding the cord extension-type solutions, it was made clear that relying on a knot too large to slip through the rapp anchor ring(s) or leaver biner in order to keep the rope anchored for a retrievable one-strand rapp is asking for trouble. However, using a proper reepshnur/biner-block is not out of the norm. Yes, a biner block has a somewhat greater chance of getting stuck on retrieval. However, with many anchor and terrain configurations, this risk is already pretty minimal and simple precautions can be taken during retrieval to further minimize it. Plus the target route in Anna's case would only need a relatively short extension. I don't think that this option deserves getting lumped in the "risky self-rescue gear wankery" category and dismissed as a textbook example of faulty judgement. I would imagine that people who regularly use a single rope and tagline for their climbing/rappelling instead of two ropes may disagree with that categorization.

The terrain in the vid appears to be one where an extra rope could pretty easily be hidden around the base of the climb - might add a few minutes to the day to get it out of general sight.

jktinst wrote: Regarding the cord extension-type solutions, it was made clear that relying on a knot too large to slip through the rapp anchor ring(s) or leaver biner in order to keep the rope anchored for a retrievable one-strand rapp is asking for trouble. However, using a proper reepshnur/biner-block is not out of the norm. Yes, a biner block has a somewhat greater chance of getting stuck on retrieval. However, with many anchor and terrain configurations, this risk is already pretty minimal and simple precautions can be taken during retrieval to further minimize it. Plus the target route in Anna's case would only need a relatively short extension. I don't think that this option deserves getting lumped in the "risky self-rescue gear wankery" category and dismissed as a textbook example of faulty judgement.

I suppose reasonable people could disagree. To repeat myself yet again, any time you pick something with additional risks and gotchas when it is truly not necessary, you are exercising what I'd call poor judgement.

For example, I haven't gone back and reread the thread, but I don't recall a discussion of some of the issues of single-strand rappels---did anyone mention doubling up on the device carabiners? Or are people who have never rappelled on a Grigri going to do that for the first time? And it also seems to me that at least some posters have gotten the extension wrong. If you want to extend a 30 meter rope for a 35 meter rappel, you need 10 meters or 33 feet of extension cord, not 5 meters or 15 feet as I seem to recall being mentioned. These things might or might not be critical, but the point is that without much experience, the party may be choosing risks they might not even be aware of when there is a completely straightforward way of proceeding that adds nothing to what they already know.

Well, even the "leave-a-rope-at-the-base" can fall apart if precautions are not taken ... especially for such a popular route as this seems. But, yes, simple math can be an additional obstacle for many including myself sometimes. :-/

By the way, in that scenario and this route, the rope left at the base need only be 35m - a common gym rope length and so probably not in short supply as a loaner which significantly reduces Anna's objection to hiking up a second rope on such a modest approach.