Antagonist Exercise
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Hi, I am wondering what antagonist exercises anyone does that they feel helps them in their climbing? I already do the ones in Eric Horst's books, since they are the most common, any other suggestions? |
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Cameron Fisher-Gomez wrote:Hi, I am wondering what antagonist exercises anyone does that they feel helps them in their climbing? I already do the ones in Eric Horst's books, since they are the most common, any other suggestions? Thank you!Look up resistance band exercises for a dislocated shoulder. Everyone should do at least some of those. And get some adjustable rings: 3 sets of push ups, 3 sets of flyes, 3 sets of dips. All on rings. Modify difficulty as needed (push ups on knees for example. Do above workout twice a week and you should be good. |
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Other than scapula-retraction exercises (which I do sometimes), |
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Cameron Fisher-Gomez wrote:I already do the ones in Eric Horst's booksYou do all of those? Like twice a week? I take it you don't have anything like a full-time job? Or you spend more time training than climbing? |
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kenr wrote: You do all of those? Like twice a week? I take it you don't have anything like a full-time job? Or you spend more time training than climbing?I don't do all of them, and I do it before bed. |
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Good for you. |
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I do these: nicros.com/training/trainin… |
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I use the horst workouts too. I don't use them much during low times in climbing but I do ramp up to a couple to several times a week when I am pushing my limits. Seems to really help strengthen my shoulders all around and prevent the recurring pains in elbows and shoulders that surface without them. I have added extra antagonist workouts based on previous injuries. I look at the injury and work out the opposite stabilizing muscles and do so on a preventative basis and generally I have been able to keep injuries from re-surfacing. I do a lot of 12+ and hardly get good antagonist work from it. I get more when doing rope management and multipitch due to all the opposite to climbing motions. I found that antagonist workouts also help with keeping those rope pulling and rope management muscles in good working order for when you head up on the big stuff. Sorry I didn't offer any extra workouts for you... mine have to do with my hip flexors and my legs needing some extra antagonist work. the arm stuff is basically the same as horsts... I just keep adding a little more weight to them as I can, safely. I roll with the theory that I should be trying pretty hard with the antagonist muscles to balance how hard I try with the climbing ones. |
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Abel Jones wrote:I use the horst workouts too. I don't use them much during low times in climbing but I do ramp up to a couple to several times a week when I am pushing my limits. Seems to really help strengthen my shoulders all around and prevent the recurring pains in elbows and shoulders that surface without them. I have added extra antagonist workouts based on previous injuries. I look at the injury and work out the opposite stabilizing muscles and do so on a preventative basis and generally I have been able to keep injuries from re-surfacing. I do a lot of 12+ and hardly get good antagonist work from it. I get more when doing rope management and multipitch due to all the opposite to climbing motions. I found that antagonist workouts also help with keeping those rope pulling and rope management muscles in good working order for when you head up on the big stuff. Sorry I didn't offer any extra workouts for you... mine have to do with my hip flexors and my legs needing some extra antagonist work. the arm stuff is basically the same as horsts... I just keep adding a little more weight to them as I can, safely. I roll with the theory that I should be trying pretty hard with the antagonist muscles to balance how hard I try with the climbing ones.Good point in trying just as hard. Thanks anyways! |
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I mostly just read MP posts |
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Mike Brady wrote:I mostly just read MP postsPlenty of antagonism there! |
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For general old-age conditioning (possibly related to climbing but I ain't making any claims), I do some weighted pullups supersetted with dumbell presses. Usually five supersets all together, with a 3-minute rest between supersets. If I manage more than five sets the weights will go up the next time. |
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Antagonist exercises by definition do not help climbing. They are meant to avoid injury. |
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Eric D wrote:Antagonist exercises by definition do not help climbing. They are meant to avoid injury.true and untrue. being well balanced,solid and healthy will definitely help your climbing |
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Eric D wrote:Antagonist exercises ... are meant to avoid injury.That is indeed the old-school theory. Recent books on training for climbing or specifically on injury-prevention, barely mention "antagonist" exercises. (other than Horst, who seems to be repeating stuff from earlier editions of his books from a longer while back). I own a rather expensive recent textbook on Sports Medicine and one on physiotherapy, and neither of them more than barely mentions antagonist training. Except for specail situations, it lacks a convincing physiological theory, and lacke careful clinical evidence. Likely it does have some placebo benefit. And of course many spouses are glad for something else to keep their climber occupied while he's not climbing or earning money. Ken |
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kenr wrote: That is indeed the old-school theory. Recent books on training for climbing or specifically on injury-prevention, barely mention "antagonist" exercises. (other than Horst, who seems to be repeating stuff from earlier editions of his books from a longer while back). I own a rather expensive recent textbook on Sports Medicine and one on physiotherapy, and neither of them more than barely mentions antagonist training. Except for specail situations, it lacks a convincing physiological theory, and lacke careful clinical evidence. KenI share your skepticism regarding the value of antagonist exercises. But the absence of discussion in textbooks really isn't proof. Have you found any studies or reviews that actually examined the issue? I have not. It seems like the PT world is generally in favor of antagonist exercises, but I don't know that literature at all. Regardless, I agree with Mike- Mike Brady wrote: being well balanced,solid and healthy will definitely help your climbingI think some of the so called antagonist exercises in fact increase strength in genuine agonists. Wrist extension for example, is important in stabilizing the hand in the optimum gripping position. Strengthening scapular retraction and depression can lead to a gain of several inches in reach and I believe also spares wear on the rotator cuff. Triceps extension is crucial for mantels, or any move involving pushing with the trailing hand (e.g. campusing.) rgold wrote:For general old-age conditioning (possibly related to climbing but I ain't making any claims), I do some weighted pullups supersetted with dumbell presses. ... Not exactly an olympic training routine, but it seems to keep me minimally fit.The advantages of weight training for older folks are pretty well established. Kris Hampton and others would suggest adding a hinge exercise and a squat exercise to the push/pull combo and calling it good. |
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Mark E Dixon wrote: Wrist extension for example, is important in stabilizing the hand in the optimum gripping position.Pretty crucial in overhang climbing: Moon boarding has actually made my forearm extensors quite sore/tight lately. Mark E Dixon wrote:Triceps extension is crucial for mantels, or any move involving pushing with the trailing hand (e.g. campusing.)Also gaston. Climbing is complex enough that I think there are only infrequently used muscle groups, depending on the style. |
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reboot wrote: Climbing is complex enough that I think there are only infrequently used muscle groups, depending on the style.I can't think of much climbing use for push ups, except maybe squeeze chimneys. You? |
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Mark E Dixon wrote: I can't think of much climbing use for push ups, except maybe squeeze chimneys. You?Push up is a weird movement pattern for most climbing; even in chimneys you wouldn't use it to advance. Dips are far more specific by comparison. That doesn't speak for the muscles involved. Regardless, I've long decided not everything I do physically is intended to improve my climbing. |
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So just to throw another log on the fire, let's stop with the name calling ( agonist, antagonist, etc) and look at the issues. Lots of climbers get shoulder injuries. Lots of climbers have poor posture due to overdeveloped (unbalanced?) musculature. Can we agree with these two issues? |
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Kevin hit it on the head I think. I get really worried about Kyphosis between climbing, sitting at a desk all day, and reading. |