Ondra on the Dawn Wall

Probably not, because then it wouldn't count as a red point ascent. And his ethics are pretty stable in that regard.

Do you think he will pull the rope and re-lead the pitch? Or just top rope to and past where he fell from?
The time involved in re-leading seems like it might be an issue , but if purity is a part of the goal
then who knows it will be cool to see.

Maybe I am naive. I am not so much into all the ins and outs of multi pitch red pointing tactics. I thought it would only count when you LEAD every pitch without falling off.

I'm pretty sure he will pull the rope when he falls, and thus redpoint every pitch. And no going back to the ground if he falls, just the belay for that pitch.

It would be very impressive to send every pitch first go, once he starts his push.

Kees wrote:Maybe I am naive. I am not so much into all the ins and outs of multi pitch red pointing tactics. I thought it would only count when you LEAD every pitch without falling off.

No, it counts if you individually free each pitch without falling and getting off the wall.

Kees wrote:Maybe I am naive. I am not so much into all the ins and outs of multi pitch red pointing tactics. I thought it would only count when you LEAD every pitch without falling off.

Explain to me how that would work with swapping leads.

From: adventureblog.nationalgeogr…

• ***********************

Redefining “Team Free”

Over the years, big-wall free climbers on El Cap have debated over the various “styles” of ascent. The method employed by Caldwell and Jorgeson over the past 19 days has left many in the climbing community scratching their heads about what to make of their style.

The goal for Caldwell and Jorgeson was simply for both climbers to free climb every pitch. At least one person had to lead every pitch, and once that pitch was led, then it was OK for the second person to free climb that pitch on top-rope.

It became confusing because, once the two climbers hit the block of really hard pitches, from pitch 14 through 20, they each free-climbed these pitches out of order from each other. Jorgeson battled to complete pitch 15, while Caldwell continued leading every pitch up to pitch 20. After Jorgeson led pitch 15, and pitch 16, then he top-roped pitches 17-20 while catching up to Caldwell.

This style really stretches the definition of “team free” to its limit due to the fact that both climbers ascended each pitch of the Dawn Wall in succession to their own high point, but out of order in relation to each other.

"Then there's the issue of arm-chairing, such as we're doing right now, when we arguably are in no position to do so, and only a handful of climbers in the world are qualified. I've never climbed a big wall, or even redpointed a 5.12."

Me too! Personally I don't care too much about all this, I climb for fun on a very modest level. But it is rather important in the more professinal climbing world. Most climbers at least try to be honest about the style of their climb

In this case, Adam is doing all the climbing. Pavel is belaying and jumaring. So I think (!) Adam is going to try to lead every pitch, redpointing them all.

Tim Lutz wrote: since when did risking death become the 'best style'?

Agreed.

the purest (best) style is: Naked barefoot onsight free solo.

Ondra will push the style if he leads all the pitches in 1 go (coming back to the belays on falls).

Personally when I climb multipitch as long as the leader sends it free then I give it a team free ascent. Doesn't matter if I do all the leading, half, none. On trad there are times when you have almost no choice but to hang and get your nut tool out and work the gear free. I wouldn't discount that as a team free ascent.

"Then there's the issue of arm-chairing, such as we're doing right now, when we arguably are in no position to do so, and only a handful of climbers in the world are qualified. I've never climbed a big wall, or even redpointed a 5.12. So there's that. Regardless though, it is fun to consider and think about all the different definitions of style and how they fit into each of our opinions on what is "pure" and what isn't. Personally, for me, anyone that steps up to that monster called the "Dawn Wall" has my respect just for having the gumption to give it a go."

I don't think it's arm chairing, I think it's about community access to a resource. And a lot of people do climb bigwalls, and don't like fixed ropes.

climbing friend,

climbing entire point of it is for criticizing others and denigrating their methods and the size of their hands or bodies, while boosting your own ego of yourownself through sandbagging others and "achievement."

do you even flash?

Jake Jones wrote: Idk. I guess it's not the best style in your opinion. It's certainly the most bold. Like I said, it's just my opinion. I think it's a better style because there's more risk, and because of that, the ascent is more impressive. Idk if I'm making a false equivalence or correlation between boldness and style. In your opinion that seems to be the case. And that's fair.

Yes, and by this definition, the best style of sex is anal, unprotected, with a NJ prostitute the roof of a moving car. A bold style for a bold man!

J Q wrote: Yes, and by this definition, the best style of sex is receiving anal, unprotected, with a male NJ prostitute the roof of a moving car. A bold style for a bold man!

Corrected it for you.

J Q wrote: Yes, and by this definition, the best style of sex is anal, unprotected, with a NJ prostitute the roof of a moving car. A bold style for a bold man!

Depends if you're pitching or catching.. who says that hooker's female?

Sanllan wrote: Agreed. the purest (best) style is: Naked barefoot onsight free solo.

The best style is free-solo trad. Everyone knows this. You plug gear that you never clip. You have a rope but not a belay. Your non-belayer may occasionally short you as long as he/she agrees to drop you if you come off.

Bill Kirby is a trump voter.

auburnjournal.com/article/9…

It looks like on monday we are going to see some action.

From Pavel:
Just enjoying the rest day today. Adam kept his promise and we went for the Chinese massage I got special treatment for pulled muscle in the back, Adam asked for extra massage of his forearms. On a bit sober note (in my case) if I don't get any better I won't be able to support Adam on his final push. I would probably be just too slow to follow him - seeing him to work on the route so hard day and night - I'm obviously the last person wanting to be the party pooper
.
As of right now the plan is to go back to the pitch #3 tomorrow - there was some surprisingly hard move - than have two days rest and start the push on Monday.
.

John Tex wrote:I didn't know there was even a debate about onsite free solo being the best style. How can using a rope be in better style than doing it onsite without one? If the dawn wall went onsite solo, in what world would any other ascent be a better style? How could you improve upon that? The best style would be one you can't improve upon. I honestly don't get it so I would love to hear the other side of the coin.

freesolo naked ans barefoot.

John Tex wrote:I didn't know there was even a debate about onsite free solo being the best style.

There isn't.