The comparable risks of being fat and climbing

pfwein wrote: If that's true, it's only because what we call "health insurance" is in fact so warped by government regulation that it really has little to do with any normal (or at least traditional) use of the word "insurance," where an insurer charges premiums based on the risks presented by the insured. In anything like a free market, fat people and smokers would have to pay higher insurance rates for being fat and smoking, and so they wouldn't affect non-smokers or non-fatso insurance premiums in the slightest.

One encouraging trend is that companies are, in fact, beginning to encourage healthy behavior through insurance premium differentials. The corporations at which I and my wife are employed, for example, both charge smokers a higher monthly premium for their medical insurance than they do for non-smokers. Furthermore, the medical premiums my wife and I pay are discounted $200 per month because we qualify for a healthy living rebate by earning points for things like getting an annual preventative health physical, having regular dental care, and for taking 5k, 10, or 15k steps a day (as measured by a Fitbit). She also gets reimbursed $200 annually against her gym membership fee (and our climbing gym counts because it has cardio equipment, weights, yoga, etc. :-).

The only thing that is going to tame the costs of health care is a cash-based system. People with low incomes can get an account they can draw from, and if they don't use it they can get a portion of it back in cash. This will incentivize people to not burden the system with colds and other BS, as well as to actually get healthy instead of paper over the symptoms with pills.

Since WW2, health care has been increasingly paid for via 3rd parties. It's all one collusion so that everyone in the industry gets regular payments regardless if you're sick or not. Pre-paid health care for everyone regardless how healthy you are.

If you get international health insurance you can get insured for practically everywhere in the world except two countries: US & Canada.

Due to the OP, this thread is very confusing to follow. It's interesting, though.

I don't think peoples' eating and smoking habits are the only things that contribute to the high cost of health insurance. Legislation and allowing these greedy fucks to continue giving up essentially nothing for a premium is also part of it. I don't think fat people should be shamed. Everyone has something they're going through. For some people fitness is how they cope. For others it's smoking. For others it's eating or drugs or whatever. Now, having said that, no one feels sorry for a smoker, and they get shamed. It's socially derided in many places now, far more than it used to be. And though I don't think people should be shamed for it, they shouldn't be cut any slack either. Just as it's not ok to ruin yourself with cigarettes and drive up health care costs (or contribute to the rising of health care costs) it's not ok to do the same with obesity, either.

As far as the risks, find a somewhat heavy belayer, use 10mm ropes, and don't climb over tiny gear. That's it.

This is a weird topic for me. I am 5'8" , and at one time in my life I weighed 235 lbs. Yup, I was pretty damn big.

Now I do not think it is okay to shame someone for being fat, but I also do not think it is okay to be fat (i.e. the fat acceptance movement is dumb).

Fat people are a burden on our healthcare system. Food is designed to keep people fat. The government advocates a free market economy where people can consume all the garbage food they want. Fast food chains are more prevalent than vegetable and fruit stands. Sugar is the biggest factor, not saturated fats.

I know that since I have become healthy I have also developed a "fat bias". The reason for this is that I see how much happier I am on a daily basis. I no longer have arthritis in my knees and ankles, no more acid reflux, no more vomiting, no more stomach issues, no more kidney problems, migraines are almost non-existent, and my brain functions more efficiently.

People can claim to genetics all they want, but when a thorough analysis of their daily routine is done you will probably find not enough exercise, combined with poor eating habits is the answer to their fat problem.

Yes, life is about experience, and you get to choose what you experience. However, I do not think it is okay for someone to burden themselves, their families, and their communities by being fat and unhealthy.

Laronicus Lehmanold wrote:This is a weird topic for me. I am 5'8" , and at one time in my life I weighed 235 lbs. Yup, I was pretty damn big. Now I do not think it is okay to shame someone for being fat, but I also do not think it is okay to be fat (i.e. the fat acceptance movement is dumb). Fat people are a burden on our healthcare system. Food is designed to keep people fat. The government advocates a free market economy where people can consume all the garbage food they want. Fast food chains are more prevalent than vegetable and fruit stands. Sugar is the biggest factor, not saturated fats. I know that since I have become healthy I have also developed a "fat bias". The reason for this is that I see how much happier I am on a daily basis. I no longer have arthritis in my knees and ankles, no more acid reflux, no more vomiting, no more stomach issues, no more kidney problems, migraines are almost non-existent, and my brain functions more efficiently. People can claim to genetics all they want, but when a thorough analysis of their daily routine is done you will probably find not enough exercise, combined with poor eating habits is the answer to their fat problem. Yes, life is about experience, and you get to choose what you experience. However, I do not think it is okay for someone to burden themselves, their families, and their communities by being fat and unhealthy.

Congrats! Hard part is also keeping it off, and I hope you are years into it. That's the part of it that will be with you forever.

In fairness, I agree with what you say, however, there are still really difficult contributors to weight, such as some medications (antidepressants, for one), and things we don't often consider, such as alcoholism.

Best to all, H.

Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs). The more a person accumulates the greater their risk for issues including depression, drug addiction, obesity, and suicide.

David Rivers wrote:Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs). The more a person accumulates the greater their risk for issues including depression, drug addiction, obesity, and suicide.

I'm sure the acronym is the final step before the cure (rolls eyes).

I had an absolute shit childhood, and creating get another syndrome isn't going to help. What, do I now get grouped with other people with shit childhoods? Seriously, what is the point of this?

I also used to be 200lb and lost 50lb by following the DSM V...oh wait no, I was mtbiking and eating chicken wraps.

Ball wrote: I'm sure the acronym is the final step before the cure (rolls eyes). I had an absolute shit childhood, and creating get another syndrome isn't going to help. What, do I now get grouped with other people with shit childhoods? Seriously, what is the point of this? I also used to be 200lb and lost 50lb by following the DSM V...oh wait no, I was mtbiking and eating chicken wraps.

Well aren't you special?? No just another high and mighty attitude.

Bill Kirby wrote: Well aren't you special?? No just another high and mighty attitude.

No, I'm not special. Clearly my point went well over your head.

Enjoy these vistas of Red Rock while you contemplate the true real-life pains these people live with. Only then will we overcome our obesity epidemic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCdHP1BBR_c

Ball wrote:The only thing that is going to tame the costs of health care is a cash-based system.

Under current prices, if the entire system was cash-based there would be no system as virtually no one could afford it. Decking on your proj and breaking your back could easily run $500k in some cases and even as high as a few million dollars in more abnormal cases. The most common serious injuries--broken legs and arms--can run $20k-30k starting. Even if a cash-based system reduced the price of care by 50%, a single major injury would still bankrupt the vast majority of Americans.

Ball- this is not a new syndrome. What it is is scientists ( psychiatrists, psychologists, neurobiologists, etc) researching the effects of trauma on human grow and development.

20 kN wrote: Under current prices.

Yeah, and how did prices get to where they are today?

The prices are the problem and having more people paying cash is the solution. We need competition, not more intervention. It's now virtually a closed system run by the health care industry and a million busy bodies between the doctor and your ailment.

Until you answer the question of WHY the prices are so godamned high, you have no solution. Trying to force rich or healthy people to pay for sick and poor people will not address this.

David Rivers wrote:Ball- this is not a new syndrome. What it is is scientists ( psychiatrists, psychologists, neurobiologists, etc) researching the effects of trauma on human grow and development.

I can't wait for the pill

20 kN wrote: Under current prices, if the entire system was cash-based there would be no system as virtually no one could afford it. Decking on your proj and breaking your back could easily run $500k in some cases and even as high as a few million dollars in more abnormal cases. The most common serious injuries--broken legs and arms--can run $20k-30k starting. Even if a cash-based system reduced the price of care by 50%, a single major injury would still bankrupt the vast majority of Americans.

http://obamacarefacts.com/factors-affect-health-insurance-costs/

consumerreports.org/cro/mag…

pnhp.org/blog/2013/07/24/wh…

Ball wrote: Yeah, and how did prices get to where they are today? The prices are the problem and having more people paying cash is the solution. We need competition, not more intervention. It's now virtually a closed system run by the health care industry and a million busy bodies between the doctor and your ailment. Until you answer the question of WHY the prices are so godamned high, you have no solution. Trying to force rich or healthy people to pay for sick and poor people will not address this.

Haha.. no HAHA.. health care costs are crazy high because of fat people? They're crazy high because of capitalism and cronyism.

Ball wrote:Enjoy these vistas of Red Rock while you contemplate the true real-life pains these people live with. Only then will we overcome our obesity epidemic.

Such an informative documentary. Bwhahahaha. "Cheese puff diet from Dr. Oz." Bwhahaha.

Ball wrote: No, I'm not special. Clearly my point went well over your head.

I said you're not.

No i get it. Your life sucked but you lost weight MTB biking and eating wraps so why can't everyone? Well I'm rich as balls and do almost what ever I want everyday. Why can't everyone? God, poor people what losers.. just like fat people. Get yourself together.

Bill Kirby wrote: I said you're not. No i get it. Your life sucked but you lost weight MTB biking and eating wraps so why can't everyone? Well I'm rich as balls and do almost what ever I want everyday. Why can't everyone? God, poor people what losers.. just like fat people. Get yourself together.

No, you clearly don't get it. Do I need to break it down for you?

The whole point of adding syndromes to the DSM V is to drum up more money and defend the "science" of psychotherapy. Even most psychologists are openly saying the DSM is becoming a joke.

Do you honestly think diagnosing someone with "ACE" is going to help anyone (well, other than the psychologist)? Good god, how did the human species even survive this long? Hell, while child beatings are down happiness also seems to be down. Maybe we should be promoting ACE (yeah, that's sarcasm since you seem to be blind to it).

I'm not making this about me. I'm pointing out that the DSM didn't make me (or anyone else) drop 50lbs. Just because I'm shitting on the egos of psychologists doesn't mean I'm pumping up my own.