Best climber's scenes/hang outs/vibe/communities

richard aiken wrote:thanks for the replies. These are a very good start and what I was hoping to learn. It is interesting to know that there are other places, please post others known to any of you. But the key I am seeking is WHY are these places special? What makes them that way? Very good points some of you made, IMO, are: -nice people. So what draws nice people to any of these more than elsewhere? In my experience, climbers are generally positive, cheerful etc but not always welcoming or outgoing... -'special place'. I've never been there so I am curious about what makes it special. (the answer will probably be the kind of detail I am seeking). -great community. What makes it so? Community seems to be a key feature and what I wonder is, how does that feeling develop? I doubt it was ever created with forethought and most likely developed organically and I would like to know what the factors and process were/are. -central meeting place. That might be key. Any more ideas about this? Are there any places with a cool scene but which have multiple meeting areas or no central one? -campfire, small area forcing people to congregate-great! Those seem very plausible. -southern sun pub-what makes it cool? Details, please thanks again and please keep 'em coming! (about the practical application, stay tuned. premature to discuss it in public yet since it might not happen)

After moving to the front range, I've determined that part of it is, that the most welcoming areas tend to be weekend trip distance from the larger metropolitan areas and have a single camping and/or hangout spot. Around denver/boulder everyone just goes daytripping and then heads home afterwards to do their own thing. At places such as Seneca, most of the climbers are from DC/Pittsburgh, which are both 4 hours away. So almost everyone is spending the weekend there. The town is really small. Only 2 campgrounds within walking distance and 2 gear stores/guide shops for people to hang out at. And also Seneca is about the only good climbing destination within that 4 hour window for both DC and Pittsburgh. If you go there with any regularity, you see the same people over and over. It's like a perfect storm.

On the front range, there are tons of options for climbing and tons of climbers. And it's almost all day trips. You run into people you know occassionally, but its not the same.

The Clachaig Inn at the bottom of Glen Coe is a classic place replete with its own climbers' bar. There are several places in Scotland with climbers' bars where you can wear your "big boots" after a day on the hill -- but the Clachaig is probably the most iconic. Lots of "scene" in that place.

Indian Creek? Also, City of Rocks has one of the best climbing/camping scenes (despite the shitty reservation system) and local climbers hangs (Rock City Pizza) out there.

I think it has to do a lot with the mindset of associated nonclimbers, whether the local community and the resources offered to them is enthusiastically supportive (Miguel's) or grudgingly accepting (Rumney?) of the climbing community and its influence/presence. Overarching access conflicts can taint one's experience of a place too, giving the feeling of treading on eggshells, or of being plain unwelcome. Likewise with conflicts with other users (off-roading, hunting, etc.)

I've always appreciated isolation from climbing areas. Crags or areas with less big-city proximity and crowds tend to feel more comfortable as a climber or someone posting up in camp for more than a couple days. I'll always feel more "comfortable" at City of Rocks or Joe's Valley or the Creek than at Red Rocks, regardless of the quality of climbing.

It might also have to do with familiarity of the individual climber with that specific area, region of the US, local mores etc.

Can't speak for international areas outside of Canada, but the same holds truee there IME.

Stagg54 wrote: After moving to the front range, I've determined that part of it is, that the most welcoming areas tend to be weekend trip distance from the larger metropolitan areas and have a single camping and/or hangout spot.

This. Sums it up pretty well. I think the forced community and stationary aspect of destination areas always make them seems less aloof than those areas that benefit (suffer?) from a day-warrior or weekend-warrior crowd.

thanks

some good ideas you folks posted.

this is a lot of what I am seeking.

Are there any places with a good scene which do not fit the ideas above?

Richard

B-Mkll wrote:Indian Creek? Also, City of Rocks has one of the best climbing/camping scenes (despite the shitty reservation system) and local climbers hangs (Rock City Pizza) out there. I think it has to do a lot with the mindset of associated nonclimbers, whether the local community and the resources offered to them is enthusiastically supportive (Miguel's) or grudgingly accepting (Rumney?) of the climbing community and its influence/presence. Overarching access conflicts can taint one's experience of a place too, giving the feeling of treading on eggshells, or of being plain unwelcome. Likewise with conflicts with other users (off-roading, hunting, etc.) I've always appreciated isolation from climbing areas. Crags or areas with less big-city proximity and crowds tend to feel more comfortable as a climber or someone posting up in camp for more than a couple days. I'll always feel more "comfortable" at City of Rocks or Joe's Valley or the Creek than at Red Rocks, regardless of the quality of climbing. It might also have to do with familiarity of the individual climber with that specific area, region of the US, local mores etc. Can't speak for international areas outside of Canada, but the same holds truee there IME.

Just went to City of Rocks for the first time this weekend. I liked it quite a bit. I definitely got a very good vibe. Locals were very friendly.

I get what you are saying about Red Rocks (although I do quite like the place).

I think the key is a definite, single hang-out spot. Places that are close to large metropolitan areas, just have too many places for people to go and hangout after a day of climbing. It's too dispersed. Places with just one or two restaurants or campgrounds to hang out at tend to have more of a community feel to them.

My experience is limited internationally but, Tonsai in Thailand is a MUST. Firstly, you are climbing in a tropical paradise of serene beaches and jutting limestone towers. This is backed up by an incredible, wholesome community of foreigners and locals alike. There was zero pretentiousness, and this can be quite reassuring for a gumbie like me. I did my first real climbing there and everyone was beyond supportive. Being able to chow down on world class Thai food before and after a day climbing was next level, not to mention $4 massages all within a short walk from both the crags and your bungalow.

The Bivy, Keene NY.

Storm Gray wrote:My experience is limited internationally but, Tonsai in Thailand is a MUST. Firstly, you are climbing in a tropical paradise of serene beaches and jutting limestone towers. This is backed up by an incredible, wholesome community of foreigners and locals alike. There was zero pretentiousness, and this can be quite reassuring for a gumbie like me. I did my first real climbing there and everyone was beyond supportive. Being able to chow down on world class Thai food before and after a day climbing was next level, not to mention $4 massages all within a short walk from both the crags and your bungalow.

This sounds SO sick.

Big fan of Ouray, especially during ice season, but also during the summer when the rest of Western Slope is boiling.

Bill Kirby wrote:The Bivy, Keene NY.

that place is still going?

Stagg54 wrote: that place is still going?

Nope.. Everyone has moved since Joe Szot's passing.The estate is selling Joe's old home and renting out two renovated apartments in the Bivy.

The Memorial Day parties still happen though.

Truckee is a rad little town. There's a ton of good climbs and the locals are pretty cool. Not to mention it has some great skiing once Winter hits.

This is a great geography analysis question!

I feel like there where many good ideas so far. However, in my experience a key attribute to an open climbing community is the total amount (not density) of climbers in the towns that make up the predominant usage of an area. Think of the big city effect where people emotionally turn themselves off from others on the street because there are just too many people for the human mind to manage emotionally. In that environment we become much more selective about who we spend our emotionally energy on.

For example after living and climbing for over 10 years in towns where the communities where small I found other climbers very eager to meet and hangout with others. Now after living in Colorado for 8 years (mostly boulder/denver) the climbing community is so big that climbers often want to get away from crowds and don't make the same effort to meet others as in smaller communities. Of course social encounters of a positive nature often happen but it seems that we take each other for granted because there's a million other climbers around. It's not that people are unfriendly but there seems to be less desire to build a tight friend/climber network.

How does this relate to why a particular climber scene/hangout is special?

Add up all the attributes mentioned so far and then add a base climbing community that is more eager to meet others and you end up with a culture that is more open to others. If the majority of a crags participants are of this mindset it creates a base culture that is more open. This sometimes extends down to the infrastructure of an area such as climbers building camping areas that are designed more for hanging out with others. This often happens unintentionally as these groups are just used to thinking this way rather than separating people into their own zones.

NOTE: I've seen similar dynamics in international destinations like Squamish where so many people are traveling from other places that are more eager to meet other travelers. Rather than just racing out to the local crag where it's easier to get annoyed by others at your favorite camp/climb, travelers are usually just more excited to add to their experience by sharing it with others.

NOTE 2: This also can happen at new climbing areas where the early participants and route developers are excited to share the area with others. In my experience most people developing routes are excited to get others on them and naturally become stewards and ambassadors of areas. This can lead to some of the best crag/camp communities of all. Unfortunately this early enthusiasm doesn't last for ever.

Ramble over...

Bill Kirby wrote: Nope.. Everyone has moved since Joe Szot's passing.The estate is selling Joe's old home and renting out two renovated apartments in the Bivy. The Memorial Day parties still happen though.

yeah. I thought that died with Joe. Always heard tons of stories. Never actually stayed there. Usually stayed at Brookside or the Hostel.

jmapping wrote:This is a great geography analysis question! I feel like there where many good ideas so far. However, in my experience a key attribute to an open climbing community is the total amount (not density) of climbers in the towns that make up the predominant usage of an area. Think of the big city effect where people emotionally turn themselves off from others on the street because there are just too many people for the human mind to manage emotionally. In that environment we become much more selective about who we spend our emotionally energy on. For example after living and climbing for over 10 years in towns where the communities where small I found other climbers very eager to meet and hangout with others. Now after living in Colorado for 8 years (mostly boulder/denver) the climbing community is so big that climbers often want to get away from crowds and don't make the same effort to meet others as in smaller communities. Of course social encounters of a positive nature often happen but it seems that we take each other for granted because there's a million other climbers around. It's not that people are unfriendly but there seems to be less desire to build a tight friend/climber network. How does this relate to why a particular climber scene/hangout is special? Add up all the attributes mentioned so far and then add a base climbing community that is more eager to meet others and you end up with a culture that is more open to others. If the majority of a crags participants are of this mindset it creates a base culture that is more open. This sometimes extends down to the infrastructure of an area such as climbers building camping areas that are designed more for hanging out with others. This often happens unintentionally as these groups are just used to thinking this way rather than separating people into their own zones. NOTE: I've seen similar dynamics in international destinations like Squamish where so many people are traveling from other places that are more eager to meet other travelers. Rather than just racing out to the local crag where it's easier to get annoyed by others at your favorite camp/climb, travelers are usually just more excited to add to their experience by sharing it with others. NOTE 2: This also can happen at new climbing areas where the early participants and route developers are excited to share the area with others. In my experience most people developing routes are excited to get others on them and naturally become stewards and ambassadors of areas. This can lead to some of the best crag/camp communities of all. Unfortunately this early enthusiasm doesn't last for ever. Ramble over...

After climbing extensively at Seneca and the New River Gorge and now being in Colorado for 3 years, I agree completely. The attitude is way different. I much preferred Seneca and the New. The climbing out in Colorado is arguably better, but the crowds (and the general lack of community)_severely detract from it. It's not that any of the people individually are that bad. In fact I would say 90% or more of the groups I run into out here are great people and my interactions with them have been great (save for the dogs, but that is a whole other thread). It just that there is too damn many of them on the front range.

Stagg54 wrote: yeah. I thought that died with Joe. Always heard tons of stories. Never actually stayed there. Usually stayed at Brookside or the Hostel.

Sorry I didn't mean what I wrote. The Bivy still went on after Joe passed away. I've never met Joe Szot but stayed there. His girlfriend and a friend after Aya moved kept it up for three or four more years.

Stagg54 wrote: It just that there is too damn many of them on the front range.

Perils of going "stag" in CO. Tool.

City Dweller wrote: Perils of going "stag" in CO. Tool.

so you like going climbing with 100 of your best friends? And apparently not liking that is being a tool?

Ive always loved the Wild Iris camping area, and it annex The Lander Bar!