Helmets

Why carry it around if you're not going to wear it. l put it on when I get to the cliff and take it off when I leave. claiming to know the only times an accident could happen in the meantime would be arrogant stupidity. Additionally it is more efficient to simply get used to wearing it rather than carrying it.

How many ways can Nick say it? There is no argument;
You are always safer with your brain bucket on your head !

When helmets weighed 4#s it was a pain in the neck, but now helmets are so light
there is no excuse. If you have one wear it! If you don't have one get one.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:My point is If your going to carry the thing around you might as well carry it on your head. When I see someone bring a lid to the cliff and then pick and choose when they have it on their head or in the pack it's effing stooped. Accidents happen on their own time. We don't get too choose when that will be. If we did know when and where the accident was supposed to happen there would never be an accident. So if you really think you are smarter than Murphy's laws and you take your lid off just because it's a steep clip up you are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Murphy might just have your partner lower you off the end of the rope. Oopsi, you just fell 10 ft into a pile of rocks and your going to be drooling your oatmeal all over yourself for the rest of your life because your helmet was in the pack instead of on your head. I find this infinatly dumber than simply choosing to not wear a helmet at all.

if you agree redundant thinking is to always double up on safety,
how can you leave a helmet where it does nothing but get in the way?
When Do you have it clipped to your harness?

Nick said among other things

"My point is If your going to carry the thing around you might as well carry it on your head".

"When I see someone bring a lid to the cliff and then pick and choose when they have it on their head or in the pack it's effing stupid.."...
"Accidents happen on their own time. We don't get too choose when that will be. If we did ." . . .
"So if you really think you are smarter than Murphy's laws and you take your lid off just because it's a steep clip up "
"you are not nearly as smart as you think you are".
"Murphy might just have your partner lower you off the end of the rope. .."..

patto wrote: There are numerous rational reason why one would take a helmet off at a crag. I regularly take mine on and off according to need. Clipping it to my harness in the process. Not recognising that different situations have different risks is the dumb thing here.

The only time I can think of a reason NOT to wear it is while climbing a chimney, squeeze, or OW where it may get in the way. When else is there a reason NOT to wear a helmet?

john strand wrote: what if this was at a climbing area ? I know i'd get the hell out.

Huge difference. Cyclists use roadways and are thus subject to more regulation. Mandating bike helmets is more like mandatory seatbelt laws, which are highly effective, although I am not necessarily in favor of bike helmet laws either. Helmet regulations for climbing would be completely unenforceable because nobody would be around to enforce them. That said, if I were at a climbing area and someone told me I had to wear a helmet I would probably be pretty weirded out, but not for the same reason.

eli poss wrote: The only time I can think of a reason NOT to wear it is while climbing a chimney, squeeze, or OW where it may get in the way. When else is there a reason NOT to wear a helmet?

The best reason of all..I don't want to.

Why don't you tell people when to place gear or what knot to tie in with or better yet......

john strand wrote: The best reason of all..I don't want to. Why don't you tell people when to place gear or what knot to tie in with or better yet......

If that is enough of a reason for you to decide not to wear your helmet, then so be it. Not the case for me. And nobody is trying to make you wear a helmet.

Well, in some of the previous posts,"your stupid to not wear one" comes up a few times...I don't need others to make decisions about climbing for me.

kinda reminds me of ex-drunks who are born again after AA....

Any numbers on the percent of accidents that have happened from not wearing a helm? I feel like the number is probably extremely low because I can't even recall seeing any post of getting hurt / killed from something a helm could have saved.

Honestly I know it could help in a few cases but it comes down to the risk is so extremely low that I would rather be comfortable than wear one. I climb for fun so when helm starts annoying me it is no longer fun so I may as well not climb (there are always exceptions to the rule and if I am climbing / cleaning something new that has a high chance of breaks I do wear one).

ViperScale wrote:Any numbers on the percent of accidents that have happened from not wearing a helm? I feel like the number is probably extremely low because I can't even recall seeing any post of getting hurt / killed from something a helm could have saved. Honestly I know it could help in a few cases but it comes down to the risk is so extremely low that I would rather be comfortable than wear one. I climb for fun so when helm starts annoying me it is no longer fun so I may as well not climb (there are always exceptions to the rule and if I am climbing / cleaning something new that has a high chance of breaks I do wear one).

Go on youtube you can see 2 dozen people invert and smack their heads on the rock, ueli steck had a massive rock come down on his head a few years ago, this is off the top of my head of when helmets either have saved lives or could have saved a concussion, google is one of the most powerful tools on the internet learn to use it.

John. I only said you are stupid if you carry a helmet around but don't wear it...

ViperScale wrote:A I climb for fun so when helm starts annoying me it is no longer fun so I may as well not climb

The things I read on the Internet...

that guy named seb wrote: Go on youtube you can see 2 dozen people invert and smack their heads on the rock, ueli steck had a massive rock come down on his head a few years ago, this is off the top of my head of when helmets either have saved lives or could have saved a concussion, google is one of the most powerful tools on the internet learn to use it.

Sure I know it can happen but how many of those would really cause death or serious harm? Just because you hit your head doesn't mean you are going to get injured. I know more than one person who has decked and landed on rocks from 30ft or so without any harm. Got any links to articles where a climber was killed from falling upside down and hitting their head?

Rock fall is the biggest reason I would use a helm but rock fall in most areas with heavy traffic is extremely rare.

I know someone who lost 1 and half fingers from a call where his wrist hit a biner and it ripped them off. Does that mean we should only use locking ones?

I know top rope areas where I have not seen a single rock break off in over 8 years... is there really a reason to wear a helmet there? I still see some people wear helmets there and if they want to it don't mind but still think it is probably a higher chance of getting struck by lightning than for the helmet to do any good.

https://youtu.be/4nAJ8EG8MVE

I wear a helmet because one of my climbing buddies has a photo of a gigantic egg on his noggin, through the helmet. If he'd not been wearing the helmet, he'd be quite a bit more scrambled than he is now. And that was on a sport climb, maybe 5.11.

A smart person learns from their experience. A smarter person learns from other people's experience too.

I don't like wearing seat belts either. I wouldn't wear one if it wasn't against the law, statics though back up them making a different in most crashes. I don't know if you can show a study that shows the same for falling upside down. But really they don't annoy me like a helmet does, I hardly notice them.

A smart person learns from their experience. A smarter person learns from other people's experience too. And the smartest person looks at everything and decides what they are comfortable with.

http://www.climbing.com/news/no-brainer-helmet/
Taken from a random article...

In fact, it's very difficult to prove that climbing helmets save lives at all, despite many anecdotes suggesting they do. On its website, Petzl has collected stories from climbers who swear helmets saved their lives. Reading these accounts, and looking at the photos of the busted helmets, you could easily conclude these climbers would be "dead for sure" if it weren't for that trusty lid. But would they? Would a helmet have prevented Rodden or Barnes' concussions?

(reference they are talking about is someone who fell hit their head and the question is if a helmet would have prevented it due to the fact it was the brain hitting the front of the skull not where the head hit the wall causing the problem which may have still happened even with a helmet on)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:l put it on when I get to the cliff and take it off when I leave.

Why not wear it on the approach, and/or while driving to the parking lot, around the house? You got it with you.

You do what ever you want but when I see you belaying with your lid hanging from your harness the thought that will pop into my head is "what a moron....."

Nick Goldsmith wrote:You do what ever you want but when I see you belaying with your lid hanging from your harness the thought that will pop into my head is "what a moron....."

I know of around 50 injuries around where I live in the past 5 years, 5 were deaths (helmet would not have helped), 2 were serious permanent injuries (helmet would not have helped), and another 43 were serious to minor (helmet would not have helped)... now I am sure there were probably more I never heard about and there may have been some a helmet would have helped but I just don't know about.

My point is the helmet isn't going to prevent all injuries and looking at how most people I know were hurt climbing they wouldn't have helped. So go ahead and wear one if you want I don't have any problem with it, just leave me alone when I say I have looked into it and made an educated decision that I don't want to. (in most places)

I also have noone relying on me, no wife, no kids, etc. If I had someone depending on me staying alive I may more inclined to use every possible measure to not get hurt no matter how small, but there isn't.

so Vipe. You are convinced that helmets do not help prevent injuries, swear up and down that you won't wear one yet you would belay with a helmet clipped to your harness. I stick by my assesment ;)

Omg I can't believe we're actually having this argument. Yes, Viper, helmets can save lives and lessen or prevent traumatic injury. Obviously, this won't save you from a head-first ground fall from 60' nor will it do anything to prevent back, finger, or foot injuries, but to question whether helmets ever make a difference is just silly. You don't know what kind of accident will befall you, if any, but if wearing a helmet makes you statistically safer from fatality and traumatic brain injury at next to no cost to you (BD Half Dome is what...$50?), it is a (pardon the pun) no brainer.
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