Highballing Vs Solo

While I've thankfully never witnessed a death, I have seen someone get a tib-fib break falling about 4 feet onto a thick mat at the gym. I would list those things amongst what I above referred to as "freak accidents." No reasonable person would have predicted those outcomes as likely. That said, if a million people take 4 foot falls, eventually someone's going to die/be maimed horribly from it.

My bad, I guess it wasn't a troll. I called the IFSC up and they said a boulder problem ends at 6.096 meters, then it switches to "highball", and then at 12.19M it becomes a free solo.

^^^^ ^^^ haha classic post, nice one Sean. I love the data.

Speaking of data- My doctor told me (after a bad ground fall), that the human body has a statistical 50% chance of dying from a fall of 20 feet. So above 20 feet....... you are playing with fire.

It's called the FV 50 point or something like that.

It's the LD50, or Median Lethal Dose. I'm not in the med profession, but I believe it's more commonly used for substances. In the case of falling, I think the term is "fall from height", and this page:

crashingpatient.com/trauma/…

which lists some references, says it is 48 feet.

Sean you're nothing more then a internet asshole if you don't like the question why come on here and throw insults then look up where I'm from and call me a troll. I can sit here and throw insults all day also but I'm not a loser and have better things to do with my time. I'm Sorry we all can't live in Utah but I do live by the NRG,RRG,Seneca where it's all good fun climbing but I forgot you only climb 5.13-5.14multi pitch routs with a hand tied behind your back because you're just that bad ass. I was only wondering this question because there are some crags around closer to my house like coopers rock or Ohiopyle that have a decent amount of climbs that are around 30-35feet and just wanted to know if it was highballing or solo when I see people do it I want to call it highballing because I don't feel that there going die just brake there legs

Jaredsup wrote: Sean you're nothing more then a internet asshole if you don't like the question why come on here and throw insults then look up where I'm from and call me a troll. I can sit here and throw insults all day also but I'm not a loser and have better things to do with my time. I'm Sorry we all can't live in Utah but I do live by the NRG,RRG,Seneca where it's all good fun climbing but I forgot you only climb 5.13-5.14multi pitch routs with a hand tied behind your back because you're just that bad ass. I was only wondering this question because there are some crags around closer to my house like coopers rock or Ohiopyle that have a decent amount of climbs that are around 30-35feet and just wanted to know if it was highballing or solo when I see people do it I want to call it highballing because I don't feel that there going die just brake there legs

sounds like a pink point to me.

This place is full of entitled idiots, if you fall and break something who pays for the care you need?
The loss of help you give the way you make life work? Will you screw up a job?

Climbing with out a rope is dangerous, the potential for
Injury is not mitigated by safety procedures .

So as unpopular & un-cool as it maybe:

I don't believe there is a difference

Bouldering / climbing / soloing / third classing All without a rope attached
all risk ground fall.
Splat! Hey don't do that & you will climb a lot longer injury free.

An old scale was once class 1-5, then the segmentation of
the 5th grade into the - points X (5.3, or 5 . 7)
3rd class was a term that described what is now accepted as
Soloing,
(with or without the use of gear, the addition of the word FREE, now denotes gear less )

The focus on smaller height or traversing climbing is referred to
by the definition of the medium relative to other (types of ) climbing that
is a larger & requires more commitment of time to climb
due to size / height. Making that type of climbing or
the result of falling less forgiving & requiring safety gear to survive

Safe climbing happens when you are attached to a safe belay

Verses any and all types of climbing where you are unattached .

Making ground fall the result of any mistake has consequences .

Ground strike while on a cord,? Is almost always due to climbers' errors.
Bad gear placement, rope stretch or intention of belayer/spotter
BUT
When there is no cord, every fall is a grounder.
( pads, only cushion the blow, the shock going to the joints is barley offset )

Punctuation ? Why bother. . .
It is a semantics' debate, - words describing climbing rocks

Anything above 50ft or 15 meters is I guess statistically going to kill you so anything above that is a solo, and a high ball is anything above 4 meters. But with other factors like how bad the landing is, if it's non stop rocks and boulders 5 meters could be practically a solo but if you're climbing sea cliffs and the route is 70 meters you could be safe for 20-30 meters but even then things like ledges can screw you over. So in the end it varies on the route, but as i said in the beginning all things being equal 15 meters and UR GUNNA DIE!!!
Also Michael that's unbelievably stupid, if you get shot and have a bullet proof vest on you didn't get shot, you fall on a bouldering pad you didn't just take a gnarly ground fall, just like the guys slack lining in the park are not Dean Potter
youtube.com/watch?v=KVaTsul…
stop thinking so black and white.

that guy named seb wrote:...if you get shot and have a bullet proof vest on you didn't get shot,...

That's incredibly wrong.

Michael Schneider wrote:This place is full of entitled idiots, if you fall and break something who pays for the care you need? The loss of help you give the way you make life work? Will you screw up a job? Climbing with out a rope is dangerous, the potential for Injury is not mitigated by safety procedures . So as unpopular & un-cool as it maybe: I don't believe there is a difference Bouldering / climbing / soloing / third classing All without a rope attached all risk ground fall. Splat! Hey don't do that & you will climb a lot longer injury free. An old scale was once class 1-5, then the segmentation of the 5th grade into the - points X (5.3, or 5 . 7) 3rd class was a term that described what is now accepted as Soloing, (with or without the use of gear, the addition of the word FREE, now denotes gear less ) The focus on smaller height or traversing climbing is referred to by the definition of the medium relative to other (types of ) climbing that is a larger & requires more commitment of time to climb due to size / height. Making that type of climbing or the result of falling less forgiving & requiring safety gear to survive Safe climbing happens when you are attached to a safe belay Verses any and all types of climbing where you are unattached . Making ground fall the result of any mistake has consequences . Ground strike while on a cord,? Is almost always due to climbers' errors. Bad gear placement, rope stretch or intention of belayer/spotter BUT When there is no cord, every fall is a grounder. ( pads, only cushion the blow, the shock going to the joints is barley offset ) It is a semantics' debate, - words describing climbing rocks

only groundfall I ever had was when I was roped up.

Andrew Wood, I've noticed your posts the good, the bad & the ugly,
Climbing above pro, missing a clip with slack out, and a few more things will result in
Hitting, things on the cliff or the ground, at the end of falling, stopping , is the danger.
N just saw Fritz Weissner's (son?) Posting a question, I was lucky enough to climb with Fritz.
Old Fritz taught me well; Don't fall,

of course I do fall - all the time.

I fell badly in 94, 96 &'12
What did I call what I was doing ? ( It did depend on who was asking.)
The degree of understanding for all the sub-sets of climbing, by non-climbers meant
that different explanations were needed. I did not refer to soloing , bouldering or climbing.
I said I fell and landed wrong, badly, or " I don't really remember".

I think that the thing so many miss is that pads do very little to protect your Joints.

I know many people who wish they had boulder'd less.

Some, who post here, have told the stories
of stepping down from a hold in a gym, a foot off the mats, and wrecking a knee.

I've seen a person tear off 7 finger nails, pass out, hit his head, need emegancy surgery, to alleviate swelling, & took weeks to see straight. Ho, and $10k + in losses.

Bouldering at the high end ( or v anything ) can & does lead to un- controlled falls. Falls that are packed with force, often causing awkward, landings. That leave permanent underlying back injuries.

So I said;

Safe climbing happens when you are attached to a safe belay

Verses any and all types of climbing where you are unattached .

Making ground fall the result of any mistake has consequences .

Ground strike while on a cord,? Is almost always due to climbers' errors.
Bad gear placement, rope stretch or intention of belayer/spotter
BUT
When there is no cord, every fall is a grounder.
( pads, only cushion the blow, the shock going to the joints is barley offset )

Michael Schneider wrote:Andrew Wood, I've noticed your posts the good, the bad & the ugly, I think that the thing so many miss is that pads do very little to protect your Joints. I know many people who wish they had boulder'd less. Some, who post here, have told the stories of stepping down from a hold in a gym, a foot off the mats, and wrecking a knee. I've seen a person tear off 7 finger nails, pass out, hit his head, need emegancy surgery, to alleviate swelling, & took weeks to see straight. Bouldering at the high end ( or v anything ) can & does lead to un- controlled falls. Falls that are packed with force, often causing awkward, landings. That leave permanent underlying back injuries. So I said; Safe climbing happens when you are attached to a safe belay Verses any and all types of climbing where you are unattached . Making ground fall the result of any mistake has consequences . Ground strike while on a cord,? Is almost always due to climbers' errors. Bad gear placement, rope stretch or intention of belayer/spotter BUT When there is no cord, every fall is a grounder. ( pads, only cushion the blow, the shock going to the joints is barley offset )

the hold I was cranking on ripped off the wall and landed on me. belayer kept it loose so I had time to change the trajectory of the rock away from my chest.

Sean H wrote:"Highballing" refers to boulder problems, and free soloing refers to climbs where people rope up.

My apologies. That's still the answer though - or at least pretty close to it.

Andrew Wood wrote: the hold I was cranking on ripped off the wall and landed on me. belayer kept it loose so I had time to change the trajectory of the rock away from my chest.

Chossy Rock is the cause of some very tragic accidents,
Kenny Heiser was belaying Kenny black(?physco Ken ), when he pulled a flake off that cut his rope
at his waist /tie-in. Freaky scary loose rock happens.
This sounds snarky, it is not meant that way;
I bet you learned to pull down not out. . . .(would a smiley face help?)
I hope you heeled up, but still
Stay roped up!

Hey There, Marc801, ...from the old days huh?
Some posts just aren't worth responding to.
Oh the irony.,. .! Physician, heal thy self

How are you? How's your, back? Neck? elbows & hips, knees & shoulders?
Edit:how could I forget? Ankles?

A lot of bold old Gunkies are limply, with range of motion issues.( RR,+j Monson, sad )
Things like Frozen shoulders, rotator cuff scar tissue you can point out,& feel.
All from just climbing Hard, throwing dyno's for holds, and landing on the cartridge road.
They were the best days though.

Michael Schneider wrote: Chossy Rock is the cause of some very tragic accidents, Ken Heiser was belaying Kenny black(?), when he pulled a flake off that cut his rope at his waist /tie-in. Freaky scary loose rock happens. This sounds snarky, it is not meant that way; I bet you learned to pull down not out. . . .(would a smiley face help?) I hope you heeled up, but still Stay roped up! Hey There, Marc801, ...from the old days huh? Some posts just aren't worth responding to. How are you? How's your, back? Neck? elbows & hips, knees & shoulders? A lot of bold old Gunkies are limply, with range of motion issues.( RR,+j Monson, sad ) Things like Frozen shoulders, rotator cuff scar tissue you can point out,& feel. All from just climbing Hard, throwing dyno's for holds, and landing on the cartridge road. They were the best days though.

yea, I knew a guy who had a rock break off, cut his rope, and sever the inside of his thigh for a foot. His partner free solo'd up to him with the rest of the rope so they could rappel down and swim down the creek to the exit.

Andrew Wood wrote: yea, I knew a guy who had a rock break off, cut his rope, and sever the inside of his thigh for a foot. His partner free solo'd up to him with the rest of the rope so they could rappel down and swim down the creek to the exit.

Lucky they knew how to swim.

Michael Schneider wrote: Lucky they knew how to swim.

yea, that part of the story really blows my mind. the creek would have to be at well over flood levels for them to have to swim. with an open wound near an artery no less.

Good thing, that flooding,
kept the snakes & piranhas from smelling all that blood.

Stephen Arsenault
( you might know me if you saw me with Tor )
1st). There is a monitoring program that stops one from posting similar "looking" posts.
To by pass this censorship, I wax creative -( Russ Keene? Does that answer Your ??)
, then try to remove all that I can in edit without triggering the flag.....

2nd). You might have taken what I opened with to heart, my statement as not directed at people who solo.
In any case, I include myself in the Entilted idiots, the idiots that I was referring to to was a collective 'We'.
That said,
I'm not sure how I missed your post & not wanting to bump my rant I've chosen to jump in here, on the 4th of July

Michael Schneider,

I carefully read your previous post before responding to this comment you made,
"This place is full of entitled idiots".

Are you implying that anyone who free solo's is an idiot?

I agree with much of your opinions, and it is obvious that you have been climbing
a long time, from reading your post. I was also around the Gunk's when Fritz Wiessner would be seen free soloing one of his favorite routes.
I could name at least 20 respected climbers who occasionally free solo, and yes, they would all die, if they fell, but would you call them idiots?

I used to solo far more than I do now, at 70, and soloing is a selfish activity, but occasionally, when my head is in the right place, I still do it. Hell, Fritz
W. did it into his 80's, and he was one of my early "hero's".

Michael Schneider wrote:This place is full of entitled idiots, if you fall and break something who pays for the care you need? The loss of help you give the way you make life work? Will you screw up a job? Climbing with out a rope is dangerous, the potential for Injury is not mitigated by safety procedures . So as unpopular & un-cool as it maybe: I don't believe there is a difference Bouldering / climbing / soloing / third classing All without a rope attached all risk ground fall. Splat! Hey don't do that & you will climb a lot longer injury free. An old scale was once class 1-5, then the segmentation of the 5th grade into the - points X (5.3, or 5 . 7) 3rd class was a term that described what is now accepted as Soloing, (with or without the use of gear, the addition of the word FREE, now denotes gear less ) The focus on smaller height or traversing climbing is referred to by the definition of the medium relative to other (types of ) climbing that is a larger & requires more commitment of time to climb due to size / height. Making that type of climbing or the result of falling less forgiving & requiring safety gear to survive Safe climbing happens when you are attached to a safe belay Verses any and all types of climbing where you are unattached . Making ground fall the result of any mistake has consequences . Ground strike while on a cord,? Is almost always due to climbers' errors. Bad gear placement, rope stretch or intention of belayer/spotter BUT When there is no cord, every fall is a grounder. ( pads, only cushion the blow, the shock going to the joints is barley offset ) Punctuation ? Why bother. . . It is a semantics' debate, - words describing climbing rocks

Michael,

I apologize for dismissing you as a troll earlier, but it is obvious that you have a very opinionated stance on the matter.

I would argue that the majority of people have health insurance, and that pays for whatever accidents they may have. Yea, a lot of climbers are dirt bags and don't have an employer, but the overwhelming majority of us are doing the daily grind and hitting the weekends hard.

Your opinion is your opinion, but I don't believe the majority of climbers share it.

As you well know, climbing is a personal endeavor, and the majority of the risks that a climber takes are premeditated. We choose to climb X rated routes if we want, we choose to free solo if we want to. I don't believe anyone is naive about the risks they take when they climb without any sort of protection, or exceed what is "normal" for the scenario they are in. For example one would be naive to believe that high-ball bouldering carries the same risk level as bouldering to a maximum height of 10-15 feet.

My point is, live and let live. There is no need to belittle others who share a differing opinion than yours. If we all held our own personal dogmas as standards by which other people should abide, we would not be able to make the progress that we do in our personal and professional lives.