Communication when you cannot hear your partner?

Shelton Hatfield wrote:When the rope runs out, climb. If your leader isn't a douche, you're on belay. yes I'm that guy who didn't want to read the whole thread but felt the need to spout the same bullshit that has already been spouted plenty. :D

I wouldn't want you as a partner. If the rope has just "run out" and you just started climbing then you might have just started simul-climbing without your partner knowing. Your partner might realise he's out of rope and then down climb to a better position.

Its a bit more complicated than that. But maybe if you had read some of the thread you would have come across some more comprehensive responses.

patto wrote: I wouldn't want you as a partner. If the rope has just "run out" and you just started climbing then you might have just started simul-climbing without your partner knowing. Your partner might realise he's out of rope and then down climb to a better position. Its a bit more complicated than that. But maybe if you had read some of the thread you would have come across some more comprehensive responses.

You wouldn't want me as a partner? Harsh. I swear I'm almost bearable sometimes and only about half as much of a douche as I seem like on MP.

And although I agree that it can be more complicated than I stated, I attest that it doesn't need to be if we've discussed that climbing when the rope runs out is the plan. And I don't just surprise people with this method. I do this with partners when we have discussed that communication may be difficult and we are reasonably sure of upcoming belay distances and our ability to reach them, or if we are comfortable simul-climbing.

I should've known that a good post in this thread couldn't be one line long. I now know better than to leave off a lengthy disclaimer, lest a newb read my post and think it to be fully comprehensive.

Marc801 wrote:Rick Blair wrote: I believe Breezy was originally done with an extra pitch that most link nowadays with longer ropes. You're not understanding. Shorter pitches aid communication.

+1

When I started climbing, ropes were 35 or 40 meters. Since one tied into the rope with a bowline on a coil around the waist, another 5 or 6 meters went to two climbers tying in. Belaying around the hips took another half meter of rope. So at the most there were 30 or so meters available for climbing. I didn’t hear much about communication problems until ropes increased to 45 or 50 meter lengths.

The idea is that by increasing the length of a pitch, one supposedly saves time. However, when there is a communication problem, this can easily lead to more time being spent figuring out what to do than if one climbed using shorter pitches. In deciding on how far a pitch should go, it pays to consider how easy it will be to communicate from the new belay stance, which requires situational and environmental awareness—overhangs, corners, wind, road noise, partners’ capability, etc.

Rob.calm

patto wrote: I wouldn't want you as a partner. If the rope has just "run out" and you just started climbing then you might have just started simul-climbing without your partner knowing. Your partner might realise he's out of rope and then down climb to a better position. Its a bit more complicated than that. But maybe if you had read some of the thread you would have come across some more comprehensive responses.

That being said, patto, I also wouldn't want to climb with a partner who 'runs the rope out'. I want my partner to understand where the route goes and where to belay, which is always well within the 60m rope length unless doing a 1st ascent. A good leader should have a pretty clear idea of what to expect on their lead if they've done their homework. If they get into route finding trouble I do not want a leader taking chances by bouncing further up. Stop and build a belay asap if you think you are off-route. Keep the pitches short whenever in doubt.

Shelton Hatfield wrote:And although I agree that it can be more complicated than I stated, I attest that it doesn't need to be if we've discussed that climbing when the rope runs out is the plan.

Absolutely agreed. In fact I believe I said that a couple pages earlier.

William Thiry wrote: That being said, patto, I also wouldn't want to climb with a partner who 'runs the rope out'.

So you've never run out of rope? Hmm...

It's happened to me plenty of times. Moving fast, long pitches etc... No big deal. You make it work. And sometimes it is a deliberate affair and then you move into simul-climbing. Though doing so would generally require communication beforehand.

William Thiry wrote:I want my partner to understand where the route goes and where to belay, which is always well within the 60m rope length.

Always? There are plenty of reasons to pitch things out for longer than 60m. There have been times I haven't set up a belay for 200m.

Of course communication is at the centre of all this.

Hey platto, yes, I've run out the rope a few times but only after knowing exactly what I was doing and in full communication/understanding with my belayer. It is not something I would recommend to relatively inexperienced climbers - which is after all who this thread is directed toward.

Not many people possess a 200m rope so I assume you are simul-climbing which is not in the scope of this thread.

~Cheers!

Something funny happened to me the other day. I was cruising up an easy line and I ran into a team of three having TWO ropes AND walkietalkies! The guy "in charge" told me to wait because he didn't want to share a belay ledge where you can basically pitch a tent and there's a bolted belay anchor. I'm not sure if this "incident" should be viewed as funny or sad ... I had a good laugh though, so I got some entertainment out of it.

Patrik wrote:...I ran into a team of three having TWO ropes...

What is so odd or funny about that?

^ Yeah I was wondering the same.