This might seem like a stupid question...

I need opinions from experienced climbers.

At the fitness facility I work at, we have a climbing wall in which I do a fair amount of the teaching, training, and other things (such as inspections and route setting). The majority of the classes we offer are for kids ages 5-17. Although I am heavily involved, I have a supervisor that oversees the climbing wall and all other youth programs. She is also a somewhat experienced climber. She allegedly told me and the rest of the instructors many months ago that our policy is that kids are NOT allowed to hold on to the rope while being lowered down. They must be sitting back in their harness like a chair, legs out pushing themselves away from the wall, with their hands out in front of them like they're "high-fiveing" the wall. Her reasoning for this is that it "teaches kids bad habits for using the autobelay because they will pull out a lot of slack before letting go of the wall", basically causing them to free-fall for a moment. Although I can see her reasoning behind that, we have done a great job of teaching kids how to properly lower on the autobelay. I disagree with this policy because I feel like this would give more opportunity for kids to flip upside down, as well as causing the kids to not feel secure or stable while they're being lowered, especially kids who are new to climbing.

I personally hold on to the rope every time while being lowered whether it's with a belayer or on an autobelay. I can't rationalize teaching kids to use the method my supervisor says they have to use. I don't even use that method myself. Does this make sense to anyone else here? Am I wrong to oppose her method? I really don't believe it is safe to not hold on to the rope while being lowered. I could never intentionally put these kids in danger.

It is neither safe nor unsafe to hold on to the rope. It's simply more comfortable. If you don't hold on to the rope while being lowered, you either have to use all your core muscles to hold yourself upright, or slump unnaturally far forward to alter your natural center of gravity.

It's a stupid policy but it is not unsafe. It's up to you whether you want to start making waves at work and challenge her authority as your supervisor and an "experienced" climber.

Side note: Odds are, she's a lot less experienced than she would have you believe.

Her reasoning may not be about slack but rather to teach the kids to keep their hands up to keep from hitting their face on the wall. In outdoor lead climbing i was taught to have a "falling stance" with my hands and feet out in front of me to deal with any obstacles.

I'm no "fall" guru but ...

Outside of the commercial interests your supervisor has (i.e., auto-belays), it seems a good thing to teach children / beginners in a way that promotes a long and relatively injury-free climbing life. Towards such a life, the below article seems to generally promote not grabbing the rope during lead falls. Why not begin with good habits while on TR?

Falling: avoiding rope tangling injuries

"Then, at the end of the fall when no slack remains in the rope and the body is pulled or swinging towards the wall, the climber should use his feet first, and hands if necessary, to minimise the impact. If there is anything to be protected as a reflex action, it should be the hands/arms protecting the head and chest to reduce any trauma to these areas, especially when no helmet is worn. It is only at this final stage of the fall that the ascending rope should be grabbed if required to maintain an upright position, just above the knot in the harness."

After the fall, it seems extreme to a fault to require one to never hold onto the rope while off the ground.

There is really no good reason to hold on to the rope while being lowered.

In fact, it's better to not hold on to the rope in order to keep your hands available to keep your face off the wall, or for collecting draws after a lead climb.

Holding the rope is not necessarily unsafe, but it really should NOT matter for keeping yourself upright.

If there is a real (as opposed to perceived) risk of being flipped upside down while being lowered, there might actually be a problem with the way the harness is worn.

So if you feel holding the rope is really necessary, there is either something seriously wrong with your gym's setup or harnesses, or you are not judging this “problem” in a realistic manner, which means (I'm sorry to say) you just might not be sufficiently qualified to instruct others about climbing-related activities.

In any case, there are some red flags here.

I don't think it really matters that much on top rope or an auto belay. But, you're teaching muscle memory too. If these kids ever go outside and climb on lead, instinctively grabbing the rope is a bad habit. The bent legs, bent arms position that Bill described is the safer way to take lead falls.

I'd argue that the lead fall scenario is fairly likely for a number of these kids at some point in their lives and carries the higher consequences, so you should teach to that. In the short term they may feel more comfortable holding the rope, but they'll thank you in the long term when they don't have to unlearn bad habits. A good resource that goes into reducing risk in lead falls and explains the body mechanics of how to fall better is the Rock Warriors Way and Espresso Lessons by Arno Ilgner.

Jon H wrote:Side note: Odds are, she's a lot less experienced than she would have you believe.

Yup. Having worked in gyms and summer camp programs, this is often the case. Experienced usually means gone out a couple times with someone who actually is experienced and basically being guided.