Racking Cams - 1 per biner or multiple?

I installed these boys:
m.imgur.com/Dab81su

Obviously they do nothing for weight, but the added space is lovely. On the added loops I keep my anchor lockers, quad slings, bail cord/rap rings, belay device, belay gloves and auto block, and nut tool. Having that stuff outta the way allows me to keep my cams on the front loops and nuts/draws on back loop. I also keep a couple double lengths looped around my chest clipped w biners.

Yes, it can get heavy.

I once read a similar post to this because I was trying to decide how to rack my gear. I thought about it and read about it and posted about it and figured out exactly how I wanted to rack my gear. I had the best system ever! Then I climbed with it and hated it. Fail. So I tried basically every way everyone has described while actually climbing. I found out what I like and keep doing it the same way because it's comfortable and I know where everything is without looking or thinking about it.

That's the key - figure out what you like and stick with it.

Edit - Oh - and I got some beta from Bill Kirby once and it was spot on for the route. Used every nut on my rack and only a couple cams in the very specific sizes. Exactly what he said I would use.

I seem to be in the minority of racking cams multiple on a biner by size. The number gets smaller with larger cams, and then I clip two racking biners to a single biner on the loop. I do this with stoppers, too. I have stoppers and hexes on the right, cams and tri-cams on the left.

My rack does weigh 22 pounds, but it is a good weight, and lightens as I go up the pitch. (I weighed it because partners kept asking me)

one cam per biner ... if yr leading anything close to your limit, extra steps to plug that gear in is not too helpful

just use the smaller biners (oz, nano, etc ..) and itll save enough weight

as to clipping the same cams together (each with its own biner) ... personally i never do that, i find it dangles ...

not to mention if i carry doubles i have a single set racked per side so i can each gear easily with either hand ...

i suspect that folks who do clip the same sizes together use a gear sling more often than not (beth rodden does this in her vid)

hell i even pre-rack key nuts on individual draws if i know for example its a constricting finger crack and im fairly certain ill need to place a nut (or prerack em from a good stance and looking ahead)

i was curious to see what things weight

single rack (purple+blue TCU, baby blue to big blue dragon, with racking biners), full set of wallnuts + 2 racking biners+ tool, 6 DMM draws, 4 60cm alpine draws, 2 120cm alpine draws with lockers and revolvers, 2 HMS lockers + 240cm dyneema sling) ... is ~3.2 KG or just over 7 LBs

the cams only weight 1.3 KG, the nuts 520g, nut tool 100g, DMM draws 500g, 60cm draw 350g, 120cm draws + revolvers 280g, 240cm sling + 2 HMS 180g

doubles of the cams above with same gear would weight ~ 4.5 KG or ~ 10 lbs

set of tricams from black to dark blue (#2 camalot size) + 2 racking biner 470g, DMM offsets including the 2 largest offset brass (7 nuts + racking biner) 280g

"moderate"/alpine full rack (single cams as above, offsets instead of wallnuts, 7 tricams, nut tool draws slings as above) ... 3.5 KG or ~7.5 lbs

as you can see .... using tricams + singles can give you doubles in the more common sizes and take the place of big nuts (which arent used much) ... and weight slightly more than a single rack (~300g more)

note that these are full sized neutrinos, alpha trad biners ... use of less lockers and smaller biners would lighten it up even more as well as a UL nut tool ... or using lighter cams

;)

I agree with the try-what-works-for-you crowd. That plus realizing that the strategy for your basic full-pitch splitter might be different from face climbs with irregular, discontinuous, and often hidden cracks.

I rack bigger cams by themselves but two (and in the smallest sizes three) small/micro cams on the same biner. I don't worry about dropping them any more than I worry about dropping a biner full of nuts (and I haven't dropped either ever).

Just as with nuts, getting the right microcam for an irregular crack may need more than one try, and just as with nuts, it helps to have several sizes in hand. I find this better, especially if the climbing is hard, than the option of unracking and reracking choices.

Once the pieces get bigger (how big is something you decide), one to a biner makes sense.

Another point: If you're worried about saving weight, use a racking 'biner and put your extended-draw-slings over your chest with one single 'biner. You save one 'biner of weight over having dedicated two-carabiner "alpine" draws. You just clip this one-biner extended draw to the racking 'biner on the cam. I just make sure to bring some light sport draws for nuts, nasty pitons, bolts etc.. depends on the climb.

Jack C. wrote:If you're worried about gear loop space but not weight, I'll rack the same sized cam with its individual biner onto the biner of the same size cam and not the gear loop. They hang lower of course but it does save a bit of space.

This is it. Close the thread.

Like others have said, you have to experiment to see what you like. What I ended up doing is my three smallest micro cams that I have doubles of each get their own carabiner, but on my gear sling the double is clipped into the carabiner of the same size cam to reduce room on the sling. This has worked fine for me. I wouldn't choose to do this with medium or large cams. It would likely be a bit too bulky.

I could see the value of rgold's approach, and I actually considered that way of racking. I just never tried it as many climbers warned me away from it as being too much of a pain. I have though been in the exact scenario he mentions of picking the wrong size micro cam for the crack and having to waste more strength putting it back and choosing another. So perhaps it's worth trying to see what you like.

I forgot to say if you find yourself with a bulky harness try racking your draws on a sling over your shoulder... Just not on slabs

Big cams - 1 per biner. You'll know what size you want and just grab that one.
Small cams - similar sizes per biner- whatever you are unsure of - IE Blue Vs Back alien - you might grab the wrong one 1/2 of the time anyway, so they might as well be in the same biner.

Up to what size that is depends on you. For me that's about 1" that I start racking solo.

I have not worn a gear sling in decades... unless I am on a big wall.
Then again, I don't carry doubles (let alone triples) of much but nuts and small aliens.

My preference: Larger cams are racked individually and smaller cams 2 or 3 per biner. I'm in the minority with this method and it bugs my climbing partners. I also normally use a shoulder harness which is not popular these days - Oh well.

This system is mostly a way to reduce the bulk and bunching of biners on long routes requiring a big rack. Also as others have noted, grouping several small cams allows you to quickly choose an alternate size if your first guess was off - just like placing nuts. Note that when I carry > 1 set of small cams, I mix sizes on each biner rather than doubling up a single size.

Sure, if you're doing a hard route and have the gear dialed-in then single racking for every piece, including nuts, is more logical. Note that on multi-pitch routes the pro usually varies per pitch, and you will likely use less than half of your rack on any given pitch. For efficiency it's usually not beneficial to pare down your rack for each pitch: Just grab the rack and go! In contrast, for a single pitch you'll customize your rack and use most of the pieces, so single racking is more efficient and there's not an over abundance of biners.

Kent Pease wrote:My preference: Larger cams are racked individually and smaller cams 2 or 3 per biner. I'm in the minority with this method and it bugs my climbing partners.

Well Ken, you rack just like Jo, Kat, Jason and I.

Individually racked except for my small offsets, which are all on one biner. If I'm carrying extras of micro- to small, they might ride together as well.

I can't imagine the confusion of multiple cams per biner..not ever,,not even once could this be good.

Why ?

use less gear and really figure it out

John Bouchard taught me this and it still works..if you don't know who JB is..look it up\

light is right

It doesn't take much imagination to see the advantages to multiple small cams on one biner. If you are on sighting multi-pitch, in an unfamiliar area particularly, or attempting a ground up first ascent, there is no way you are going to be able to figure out what gear you will need by eyeballing it from the ground.

I often find myself on climbs where the majority of the placements on offer are going to be in small, irregular discontinuous cracks (as described by rgold) and having a full quiver of small cams works very well, but it would take up too much harness room to have each on its own biner. I have 4 small offset cams on one biner, 4 small TCUs on another, a .2 and .3 share a biner, and a .4 and 5 another. All the other cams have their own.

The process of selecting the proper piece, placing it, freeing it from the biner and re-racking the remaining cams is no different from the one you use with nuts.

I also like having one set of the larger cams on each side for the same reason Bearbreeder gives.

As others have said, the type of climbing you are doing will influence what racking system works best. There are several "good" ways of doing this - try them out and see which is the best for you.

One thing to note is that in squamish anyways yr almost guaranteed to use the .3,.4 sizes regardless often at cruxes in anything that looks remotely like a finger crack out here

So the only ones you would realistically rack toghether is the .1,.2 BDs (grey + purple tcu) .... So out here anyways it doesnt save much space

Also with extendible cam slings (zeros, new aliens, dragons, new friends) .... It doesnt make sense to rack em on one biner or theyll be a bit of a biatch to extend

And while totems are great they are bulky enough as is without racking several on a single biner

I think for folks who climb splitters, its pretty easy to look up from a good stance, if not the ground and make a decent guess of the gear

;)

Depends on what I'm doing. The small cams are usually 2-3 per.

If I know I have some more distance to travel I'll go with 2 per, and then a least 3-5 of my alpine draws around my neck with a single biner.

A flatiron day where I'm not really worried about it I'll do single biner cams.

At the end of the day it's what system works best for you and your partner. Whatever is most comfortable for your lead.

This guy nailed it, earlier in the thread:

Nuts = set split onto 2 biners
Small cams = 2-3 per biner
#.5 and up = 1 per biner

Rationale is small cams with smaller expansion range have higher likelihood of needing to try a few for the placement. And since are physically smaller is less of a cluster to rack together.

Two biners per alpine draw. This way it can be the short or the fully extended version. I also use one biner for every cam. I have been in a situation multiple times where I ran out of quick draws or alpine draws and took a biner off a cam so I can put it on a nut. Also if you know you will need a alpine draw later and need to place a nut you can take a biner off a alpine draw and put it on a nut and still have a usable alpine draw because you had two biners on the draw and one on the cam.

There is nothing more useless than gear that cannot be used because you lack a biner... it's like carrying water from one watersource to another... But I guess you can always girth hitch your stopper wire! =) yer' gunna die

Tylerpratt wrote:... But I guess you can always girth hitch your stopper wire! =) yer' gunna die

This reminds me of a good friend (who's still a partner haha) that girth hitched a sling to every screw he placed one of the first days we climbed together. Thanks for the chuckle :)