How do YOU tie in?

Couldn't find if this had been posted here before; I so, excuse my bad form.

vimeo.com/40767916

Video showing strength of several knots. Granted this ring loading of knots may not be what happens in a fall, still cool to watch.

Edited to use correct term: ring loading

One very interesting fact is that the "cowboy" variant of the bowline (where the tail ends up on the outside of the loop) is resistant to ring loading failures.

Here's a link to the most interesting paper on bowlines you'll ever read: Bowlines Analysis

Cotopaxi wrote:Granted this "cross loading"(???) of knots may not be what happens in a fall, still cool to watch.

That testing would be most relevant if you belay off your knot, like some alpine guys do.

Can someone name the knots? Is that a Figure 9 that fails at 1/3 the load of the Figure 8?

Jim Turner wrote:Can someone name the knots? Is that a Figure 9 that fails at 1/3 the load of the Figure 8?

Not a Fig.9, just two ways of doing the Yosemite finish on a Fig 8.

No figure 9. The two knots right of the figure 8 are figure 8's with various "finishes." The first one to the right---the bad one in terms of the rolling that happens---is sometimes called the "Yosemite finish," in analogy to the Yosemite finish on a bowline, which was not tested. The second one to the right is an alternate finish. Third to the right is a single bowline without any kind of back-up knot, and rightmost is a single bowline with an overhand backup around the loop.

For leading, I tie in with a double bowline with Yosemite finish and a backup barrel knot. For top-roping the same but just a single bowline.

I almost always belay off the rope loop for both lead and follower belays, and it is conceivable but unlikely that this could result in ring-loading the rope tie-in loop. The knot I use is fully capable of handling this.

I only use a figure 8 in gyms whose insurance policy forces me to.

In no case can I think of where my knot would be cross loaded under normal circumstances.. I suppose it might be possible if I were to accidentally clip a sling into my belay loop and miss - clipping it into my knot instead, and then I fell on the sling.
knots 2 and 3 are two types of figure 8 yosemite finishes. I personally use something like number 2 (where the unloaded end is to the inside), but i then wrap it around the loaded end instead of tucking it down immediately. I also pull my knots tight and usually leave the finish loose. I should test it out and see if it handles cross loading (or use a bowline with an outside finishing tail and backup stopper.

Figure of 8, commonly finished with a mostly pointless double overhand.

Sometimes a rethreaded bowline, with a slightly pointless double overhand. But that knot tends to worry partners as they don't generally know it.

I really like the competition knot which is a re-threaded overhand where the re-trace occurs from the strand of rope coming into the knot instead of from inside of the loop. A few people I climb with are accepting but you will find most partners will look at it like WTF? so I don't usually use it.

youtube.com/watch?v=Au8KiUS…

I can't possibly imagine how your tie-in could get cross loaded in this manner...

Rick. thanks.for that knot. Im a huge fan of the double overhand and overhand in general. That should be a safe knot in all respects. It might capsize once under a hard fall and then be stable.

Rick Blair wrote:I really like the competition knot which is a re-threaded overhand where the re-trace occurs from the strand of rope coming into the knot instead of from inside of the loop. A few people I climb with are accepting but you will find most partners will look at it like WTF? so I don't usually use it.

I have been using this knot for about 5 years, much easier to untie when fallen upon.

In this thread, mountainproject.com/v/ring-… it was identified as a "brotherhood knot."

Neither of those look like how I was taught the "correct" way to tie a Yosemite finish was... And one of them looks like exactly how I was taught very specifically not to.

Todd Ra wrote:I can't possibly imagine how your tie-in could get cross loaded in this manner...

It is possible if (like me) you clip your belay device to the tie-in loop rather than the harness belay loop (see for example ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…). Usually, when loaded, the tie-in loop will not be ring-loaded, but it is possible to imagine situations in which it might happen.

Other than that you have to be doing something a bit weird, like anchoring (probably temporarily) by clipping one end of a sling to the tie-in loop and the other to an anchor and the falling on it.

rgold wrote:It is possible if (like me) you clip your belay device to the tie-in loop rather than the harness belay loop...

There's another thing among many we agree on...

Mark E Dixon wrote: I have been using this knot for about 5 years, much easier to untie when fallen upon. In this thread, mountainproject.com/v/ring-… it was identified as a "brotherhood knot."

Glad to hear you use it. I think it is the best tie-in knot. Easy to tie, easy to inspect, easy to untie after load ( there is a trick you have to learn if you fall on it), less bulk. I cannot believe it is not more widely used.

If we are talking about tie in knots and finishes, one bowline finish from the pdf I linked seemed pretty cool. It's very simple, keeps the finish knot off the loop and is effective at locking the tail. It's scott's simple lock bowline on page 47.

Here's a video of it:

youtube.com/watch?v=Ecr3K8-…

And here's a video of it being tied in a bight (in a confusing magical way) :)

youtube.com/watch?v=cfgN2EP…

^ Interesting, but looks difficult to inspect.

Brian L. wrote:^ Interesting, but looks difficult to inspect.

Possibly, though having tied it a few times just now to look at it, it does have a very distinct shape. I think it is much easier to inspect than a yosemite finish on a bowline which some people recommend, because it is very easy to follow the tail unlike in a yosemite finish which is wrapping around behind again. It also doesn't succumb to the failure mode of the yosemite finish when the tail is pulled prior to snugging the nipping loop.

You can compare here yosemite vs scott's simple lock

i like a simple overhand knot followed though, preferably with a locking snaplink at the end to connect it to my belt.

climbing friend,

thank you for your informationz. perhaps it is quite good to tie in with bowline, or brotherhood knot, or double overhand instead of figure of 8. In this way I may confuse and terrify my climbing partner, and they would believe that I am quite mysterious and knowledgable. If anyone questions my decision and decrease of safety due to inability of partner to double check, I will simply state "it's easier to untie," even though my life revolves around strengthening my forearm, incredible feats of strength, and flash 5.14 -- it is too god dang difficult to untie this little knot!

make yourself a god dang quesadilla!