Idea Check

Hi,

Don't know why I never thought to do this before, but how do we feel about using a metolius PAS as a rappel extension?

It's already girth hitched to my top/bottom loops. I clip into the anchor with the last loop of the PAS for security while I'm setting up for rappel. Maybe use like the third to last loop to attach my ATC and biner.

Auto block from belay loop to rope below ATC (Yay! no more hanging off one leg loop)

When ready, disconnect PAS and voila...ready to descend.

Right? Seems kinda simply now that I think about it.

That's how many peeps do it.

When you become too much of a hardman to be seen using a PAS use a double length sling with an overhand knot in the middle.

Ayep. See bullet #2 here:

sterlingrope.com/c/climbing…

Having never used a PAS...

Won't it be difficult to set this up if you're actually hanging on your PAS? You want to be able to transition from hanging on the rappel anchor, to rappelling, to hanging on the next anchor, etc. Maybe if your PAS does a good job of keeping its loops open so you can always clip a biner through already-weighted loops, it would work.

Sounds good. If you attach the ATC on one of the middle links, you should be able to clip the locker back to the belay loop for redundancy (not that you really need it) when you un-clip from the anchor.

If you need further validation, there's this: rockandice.com/lates-news/r…

Bill Kirby wrote:That's how many peeps do it. When you become too much of a hardman to be seen using a PAS use a double length sling with an overhand knot in the middle.

I don't even bother with the overhand knot. And it's usually a single length sling.
The PAS is a solution desperately seeking appropriate non-problems.

Marc801 wrote: I don't even bother with the overhand knot. And it's usually a single length sling. The PAS is a solution desperately seeking appropriate non-problems.

Agreed. PAS is just an example of a company doing a good job at marketing a product that no one needs and provides little/no value.

I'm actually kinda jealous of their marketing team...

Todd Anderson wrote:Having never used a PAS... Won't it be difficult to set this up if you're actually hanging on your PAS? You want to be able to transition from hanging on the rappel anchor, to rappelling, to hanging on the next anchor, etc. Maybe if your PAS does a good job of keeping its loops open so you can always clip a biner through already-weighted loops, it would work.

Attach to anchor with a sling, put the ATC/biner on the belay loop, thread rope, pull up on sling, suck the 8" of rope through the ATC, lock off on ATC and weight rap line, unclip the now lose sling. No need to dick around with PAS loops or the PAS at all.

This is exactly how I set up my extended rappel, including clipping the end of the PAS back to the belay loop. No, it is not difficult to set up with the PAS connected to the anchor. The result is a consistent, comfortable and highly controllable rappel setup. Of course, if the scorn of hardmen and minimalists concerns you, avoid it at all costs.

John Tex wrote:^^^ But then you don't have an extended rappel which I believe the poster is trying to do. Which I believe could be solved by simply tying an overhand in the middle of the sling, in which case a double length would most likely be preferred.

Oh. In that case, sure. I sorta didn't see the extended rappel business - maybe because I've done that only 2 or 3 times over the last 45 years.

Jeff0 wrote:Hi, Don't know why I never thought to do this before, but how do we feel about using a metolius PAS as a rappel extension? It's already girth hitched to my top/bottom loops. I clip into the anchor with the last loop of the PAS for security while I'm setting up for rappel. Maybe use like the third to last loop to attach my ATC and biner. Auto block from belay loop to rope below ATC (Yay! no more hanging off one leg loop) When ready, disconnect PAS and voila...ready to descend. Right? Seems kinda simply now that I think about it.

Done it this way. Only issue is it can be a bitch to get a locker through those mid loops when the PAS is weighted.

• If* you've got a PAS, you might as well put it to use. I certainly don't think there are any faults with using it that way. Extended rappels are bomber.

Of course, you can do the exact same thing with a double-length sling w/ an overhand on a bight in the middle for your rappel device (AMGA method IIRC), and a double length sling is both lighter and has more uses than a PAS. Just sayin'...

Yes, this works well. I have been doing it that way for years. I attach the rappel device to the middle loop, so the end can be clipped back to my belay loop after it has been disconnected from the anchor.

Always make sure you can easily reach above your rap device to set a prussik

If you cant itll be a biatch to reascend the rope or pass a knot

When i used to use a PAS that meant clipping the first or second loop after the girth for the device

If you cant reach above one of these days youll find out the hard way

;)

Marc801 wrote: I don't even bother with the overhand knot. And it's usually a single length sling. The PAS is a solution desperately seeking appropriate non-problems.

The OP said he wants to clip into the anchor while setting up the rappel.

A double length sling with an overhand in the middle can be used to clip into the rappel anchor and extend the rap. When you come to the next station you can clip in to it. Comes in handy when doing more than one rap.

Bill Kirby wrote: The OP said he wants to clip into the anchor while setting up the rappel. A double length sling with an overhand in the middle can be used to clip into the rappel anchor and extend the rap. When you come to the next station you can clip in to it. Comes in handy when doing more than one rap.

I stopped using a PAS in favor of this. When I'm not using it, I wrap it around my waist and clip it to a gear loop. With a narrower waist than mine, it'd be possible to clip it back to itself. That'd keep it out of the way. And double length slings are cheaper than a PAS.

Glad to see we've already reached the requisite amount of condescension for mentioning a PAS on mountain project!

Is a PAS a necessity for climbing? Most definitely not. Slings works just fine and they're more versatile. But a PAS can be a convenient tool for clipping into the anchors, allowing you to select your extension knot-free and hassle-free. When I started leading outdoors, it was one less thing to worry about while I was learning everything else. My PAS is nearing the end of its life and I probably won't buy another one, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a valuable piece of gear for the years I've used it.

Andrew G wrote: Is a PAS a necessity for climbing? Most definitely not. Slings works just fine and they're more versatile. But a PAS can be a convenient tool for clipping into the anchors, allowing you to select your extension knot-free and hassle-free. When I started leading outdoors, it was one less thing to worry about while I was learning everything else.

I feel and felt the same way. No matter what was happening, I knew I could just clip that PAS in to something solid and gain a certain amount of safety. Once tying or hitching in to an anchor is second nature, it's a different story, but for a beginner they're a valuable piece of gear to have.

The PAS is a useless piece of gear. I just go with the the AMGA method, using a double length sling with a knot in the middle. Simple, light, multi-purpose, and I've already got one on my harness. My climbing partner uses a PAS and it just adds cluster to his harness and adds one more step to anchor building because he has to clip in with a PAS and then clip in with the rope, instead of just clipping in with a rope. I am trying to get him out of it.

I extend my repels like this whenever I use a third hand backup. For what its worth-I like having a piece of gear that is very clearly a personal tether. Like a previous poster noted: It just makes it one less thing to even think about and its very easy to adjust yourself into a comfortable position. Not sure if it was entirely worth the money but since I already have it, I'm going to take the extra convenience.

Edit: I'm also curious as to what Max means when he says his partner adds a step? If you don't trust a PAS as a singular anchor, I would agree it's useless.

Max McKee wrote:The PAS is a useless piece of gear.

This is a 100% untrue statement. Usefulness != preference. Most of the time I tie knots in runners myself.