Rest

I recently discovered (okay, so I'm slow to learn) that resting is an important ingredient in climbing. I find that if I spend a day sport climbing at my limit, for me to be able to sport climb at that same level, I need at least 2 days of rest. I am 71 and really don't know if this 2 day requirement has changed over my lifetime, because I never paid much attention to it. What is the experience of other people in my age group that climb hard sport?

I don't have anything to add but it's freakin rad that you're still climbing so hard, John

John, I don't think it's an age thing. I feel the same way and I'm 31. (Although I'm sure plenty of people that anything beyond 30 is already over the hill with regards to athletic recovery periods).

I typically need 1.5 or 2 full days to recover from a HARD climbing day. If I'm at my limit, take multiple burns, a bunch of falls, and get pumped out of my gourd then, yeah, I'm worthless the next day.

It's hard for me to gauge this against climbing in my 20's because I don't think I learned how to actually try hard until recently. And I still have a lot more to learn.

Any 23 year olds here want to chime in?

EDIT: Now that we are 3 for 3, this thread is hereby reserved exclusively for Johns and Jons.

53 here.
I haven't had a full day of climbing outside in awhile, but if I seriously boulder for 4-5 hrs in the gym on Monday, then I'm not feeling like doing any climbing until Thursday.

Jon Frisby: I didn't say what "my limit" is. Maybe it's just 5.7. (Sorry, couldn't help but give you sh_t. Thanks for the compliment) If others, especially in my age group, respond with what their rest requirements are and if they have increased over the years, I'll disclose "my limit". I'm sure that will be a huge carrot. The following provides some insight:
trainingbeta.com/power-trai…

Jon H wrote:John, I don't think it's an age thing. I feel the same way and I'm 31. (Although I'm sure plenty of people that anything beyond 30 is already over the hill with regards to athletic recovery periods). I typically need 1.5 or 2 full days to recover from a HARD climbing day. If I'm at my limit, take multiple burns, a bunch of falls, and get pumped out of my gourd then, yeah, I'm worthless the next day. It's hard for me to gauge this against climbing in my 20's because I don't think I learned how to actually try hard until recently. And I still have a lot more to learn. Any 23 year olds here want to chime in? EDIT: Now that we are 3 for 3, this thread is hereby reserved exclusively for Johns and Jons.

I'll do the 23 year old honor. After a day of climbing at my limit I don't usually NEED a rest day. I'm aware of not feeling as fresh as the day before, but it's not to that point of being achey and sore that dictates a rest day. I might climb something more mellow or endurance based. This seems to be a good approach for me.

Also I second that respect for trying hard at 71. Right on man.

25 years old reporting in; 100% effort can require up to two weeks recovery for me. I've had strained tendons linger for up to 6 months, and have a few that like to flair up every now and again. A two day cycle to me just sounds like a climbing trip regiment, with no auxiliary training/physical exertion it can be maintained...but to what degree of strength? I've done year long stints where I never recovered to 100%

Jordan Moore wrote: I'll do the 23 year old honor. After a day of climbing at my limit I don't usually NEED a rest day. I'm aware of not feeling as fresh as the day before, but it's not to that point of being achey and sore that dictates a rest day. I might climb something more mellow or endurance based. This seems to be a good approach for me. Also I second that respect for trying hard at 71. Right on man.

Just to clarify, I'm not so sore and achy that I CAN'T climb and need a mandatory rest day. I just can't climb at my limit any more. For me, that means day of working hard on 12b/c (my limit) will be followed by a day 2 where it's unlikely I'll send anything harder than 5.10. Maybe a mid-11 would be possible, but it would be ugly and require a full on hangdog just to get to the chains.

And yeah - hugely inspiring to hear that you're still trying hard at 71, John. Whatever hard means, whether it's 5.5 or 5.13.

I'm not talking about feeling "fresh" or avoiding "injury" or being "sore". I'm talking about going out for 6 hours and working projects at your limit, repeated falling then trying and finally getting to the chains. Then resting for half an hour and trying again. How many days rest do you need to be able to do the same thing and being able to perform at that same level? My limit is currently mid 11. My current goal is 12a. My current strategy is Climb at the gym Tuesday and Thursday and sport climb outside on Saturday or Sunday.

How long is your project & how many burns are you doing in a session? 6 hours is a long ass day to be spending on a 1-pitch route with 1/2 hr in-between burns. I don't remember the last time I spent that much time in a session; ~4 hr projecting is my max. So yeah, if I did it for 6 hrs, it'd be easily 2 days of recovery before I can do it again, provided I haven't overstrain a finger or destroyed my skin. The more interesting question is, should you? I typically find little value going that hard for that long at once, unless it's toward the end of a trip, etc.

John Robinson wrote:I recently discovered (okay, so I'm slow to learn) that resting is an important ingredient in climbing. I am 71 and really don't know if this 2 day requirement has changed over my lifetime, because I never paid much attention to it. What is the experience of other people in my age group that climb hard sport?

This is so timely for me. After a year of traveling all over the globe for work and alternating this with a lot of climbing my body has come to a screeching halt. I am sore all over, every joint is killing me, my fingers are stiff and inflexible. I am now resting. I have been home for 5 straight days, I am doing gentle cardio and since the weather is lousy, running up jug hauls in the gym.

I think rest is critically important, although I rarely rest. I have to force myself to rest (today is a case in point...I really wanted to climb outdoors, but, I am so exhausted, I didn't think it would be very much fun).

When I am on a climbing trip, I find that after three days of climbing near or at my limit, I need to take a rest day. I am in my late 50's and I have noticed a significant decline in my ability to recover.

So, I will honor my body, take a few days of rest then off to the Gunks for 5 days of climbing.

I'm 27 and can't go anywhere near my limit my second day on

Appreciate the ribbing John. I had seen some recent 11/12 activity in a glance at your profile

67 years old - climbing 32 years now and lifting weights for 56 years - have been a student of training for many years. What the literature (and my life experience) says is that the stronger/better you are the deeper you are able to dig into your reserves and will therefore need a longer recovery period. So regardless of age a 5.11/12 climber probably will need more recovery time than say a 5.7 climber. The plan I have been using is
A fun day of easy to moderate climbing
A day of hard (for me) climbing
A day off
Then back to a day of easy to moderate - etc - and repeat. The easy day acts as an "active recovery" day and actually seems to help with recovery. If I totally trash myself I may need several days before being able to go at my limit. The actual numbers used are too highly individual - a better climber may find 5.10 a walk in the park while another may struggle mightily at the same number.

2 days for full recovery at 71 sounds incredible.... props to you sir!

47 years old (and not John). I also need two days for a full recovery. If I climb hard Sunday, then try to go again on Tuesday, then I feel tired and worn out almost immediately after starting on Tuesday.

I also mix in running (2× per week) and weightlifting (light, 1× per week), so my days off of climbing are not usually a total rest. That may be part of why I need two days to recover.

I'll give you an example of what a hard day of sport climbing is for me. Go to Gold Wall and warm up on a 10b. rest for 30 minutes then climb "Check Engine Light" 11d/12a (probably fall once at the crux, other than that, climb to the top) rest 45 minutes. Climb "Hill Billy Limestone" 12a. (I'm working out the moves cause I've never gotten the climb clean but want to soon. I fall many times and even have to pull thru a couple of moves but finally make it to the top). Rest 45 minutes Climb "Presidents Day" 12b (way too hard for me and I fall repeatedly and pull thru many moves after trying them repeatedly. There are sections of the climb I get clean but even those sections are hard. I finally make it to the top. Rest 45 minutes. Climb "Hidden Orem" 12a. Perform the same as "Presidents Day". Rest 45 minutes. Last climb is a 11a which I can get clean when fresh but don't because I'm not fresh. All these are one pitch, long sport climbs. I do a hard 40 minutes on the Elliptical trainer on the off days

I guess it depends on what you call a day of climbing. I'm 24 and I typically only need one rest day in between redpoint attempt days, but because of work and school and life I can only do burns for 3-4 hours at a time. I'd probably need two days if I was trying a climb all day instead of a few hours. That being said, I can usually do a punishing workout of 4x4's one day, take one rest day, and feel good enough to do redpoint burns on my project the next. But I definitely can't perform two days in a row and if I have hard days every other day for more than three weeks then I start getting pretty exhausted.
Props on crushing at your age! When I grow up I wanna be just like you!

Just read an interesting review article from 2008 on this subject.

humankinetics.com/acucustom…

Seems like the research is contradictory and doesn't clearly support the common observation that recovery is prolonged with age.
The authors suggest three mechanisms whereby recovery might be prolonged-
1) more muscle damage from training in older folks
2) slower repair
3) slower adaptation.

Various studies in each of these areas show either slower recovery with age or no difference. However older athletes were never faster at recovery, fwiw.

A 4th mechanism, not addressed in this paper, would invoke Noakes' central governor hypothesis and suggest decreased motivation with age.

John Robinson wrote:I'm not talking about feeling "fresh" or avoiding "injury" or being "sore". I'm talking about going out for 6 hours and working projects at your limit, repeated falling then trying and finally getting to the chains. Then resting for half an hour and trying again. How many days rest do you need to be able to do the same thing and being able to perform at that same level? My limit is currently mid 11. My current goal is 12a. My current strategy is Climb at the gym Tuesday and Thursday and sport climb outside on Saturday or Sunday.

Sounds like far too much climbing and not enough rest to me. You only get stronger by resting.

At 60 I've found I need more rest than when younger, especially if I'm doing Power-Endurance, which is what working a route is. And if I'm doing antagonistic/overall-conditioning for recovery/injury prevention, then I need more rest.

I've moved from a weekly schedule to a 10-13 day cycle, which looks sorta like this:

Rifle: Drive, 1/2 day climb, 1 day on, rest day, 1 day on -> home (4 days total)
Home: Swim, antagonistic or general conditioning (1 day)
Home: Yard work/various easy stuff (1 day)
Home: full rest day

Home: Training day. Gym/bouldering/local climbing/etc.
Home: Yard work/various (1 day)
Home: Full rest day
Rifle: repeat

This varies depending on how sore I feel, and how well I climb. If I'm really trying to peak, or even a mini-peak, I take extra rest days up to 3. And I never climb in Rifle on the weekend, unless it's the party weekend ;-)

Mark E Dixon wrote:A 4th mechanism, not addressed in this paper, would invoke Noakes' central governor hypothesis and suggest decreased motivation with age.

Interesting, though the induction of that hypothesis would suggest older athletes having a lower rate of injury than younger athletes.

FWIW, the master instructor (currently in his mid 80's) of the martial arts organization I trained under would always say that older (& presumably more experienced) practitioners tend to be stronger mentally and were more prone to overpower their physical limitations (leading to injuries) than the younger & less experienced practitioners. He was keen to advise the older practitioners to listen to their bodies and the younger practitioners to push beyond their mental limits.

reboot wrote: Interesting, though the induction of that hypothesis would suggest older athletes having a lower rate of injury than younger athletes. FWIW, the master instructor (currently in his mid 80's) of the martial arts organization I trained under would always say that older (& presumably more experienced) practitioners tend to be stronger mentally and were more prone to overpower their physical limitations (leading to injuries) than the younger & less experienced practitioners. He was keen to advise the older practitioners to listen to their bodies and the younger practitioners to push beyond their mental limits.

I'm not sure that's true in climbing, that older practitioners push harder. There might be a difference between competing directly against another person, where you will get beaten if you don't give it everything, vs choosing to try hard on a self-selected project.

You certainly don't hear about too many 60-70 year olds blowing flexor tendons.

The whole motivation question came to my mind after listening to the Noakes podcast on Paleo treats where he mentions that Alberto Salazar felt like he could never try as hard again after the grueling 82 Boston marathon.

itunes.apple.com/us/podcast…

Episode 31