Number of bolts: Boulder Canyon vs El Cap

Help settle a bet. Which has more bolts? Boulder canyon or El Cap. I thought the answer was obvious...

There's 854 sport routes listed on MP in Boulder Canyon. How many does El Cap have?

Cotopaxi wrote:Help settle a bet. Which has more bolts? Boulder canyon or El Cap. I thought the answer was obvious...

Boulder Canyon by 2 times.

Cool I thought it would be more than 2x the amount.

Now he is arguing about which has more surface area of cliff.

Cotopaxi wrote:Now he is arguing about which has more surface area of cliff.

Tell him to have his arguments here. There are a lot of folks on MP who love to argue pointless minutiae.

That's simply not true Marc.There are only a few people here who like to argue!

You are both wrong.

R. Moran wrote:There are only a few people here who like to argue!

Also wrong, none of us like to argue.

We just feel obligated to correct people in the interest of keeping them safe from themselves.

If the earth ever needs to be towed into another orbit, Boulder Canyon will be used as a hitch. That's how many bolts there are in BoCan.

Mark E Dixon wrote: Also wrong, none of us like to argue. We just feel obligated to correct people in the interest of keeping them safe from themselves.

Well safety 3rd remember. So you are wrong and your strawman argument as to why I am wrong is also wrong. And to the next commenter you are wrong as well!

damn, i hate being wrong

Rick Blair wrote:If the earth ever needs to be towed into another orbit, Boulder Canyon will be used as a hitch. That's how many bolts there are in BoCan.

That may be, but I still appreciate the route developers who are adding even more. And replacing the old ones.

Bobby D single handedly placed more bolts in BoCan than there are on El Cap!

Not so fast guys...not as simple as it seems.

I counted approximately 98 El Cap routes in Eric Sloans new guidebook. Although there are 854 sport routes in Boulder Canyon, most of them are only one pitch long. Many El Cap routes have over 30 pitches, so one El Cap route is equivalent to over 30 sport routes in Boulder Canyon in terms of pitches.

For a ballpark guess, let's say every Boulder Canyon sport climb averages 10 bolts. That means there are 8,540 bolts (854 X 10).

However, many of the routes on El Cap have 3 bolts at the belay. Let's say the average number of pitches per El Cap route is 25. So El Cap has 7,350 bolts ONLY counting the belays (98 X 25 X 3).

However, this underestimates the number of bolts since many of the pitches have lead or aid bolts on the pitches. As an example, Warren Harding placed over 300 bolts on ONE route - the Wall of the Early Morning Light! That's makes up one third of the difference between Boulder Canyon and El Cap.

I would say that El Cap may actually have MORE bolts than Boulder Canyon sport routes!

Unfortunate that so many bolts have been added to El Cap. Robbins and crew only placed 13 bolts on the first ascent of the Salathe Wall - it now sports well over a hundred!

Arlo F Niederer wrote:Not so fast guys...not as simple as it seems. I counted approximately 98 El Cap routes in Eric Sloans new guidebook. Although there are 854 sport routes in Boulder Canyon, most of them are only one pitch long. Many El Cap routes have over 30 pitches, so one El Cap route is equivalent to over 30 sport routes in Boulder Canyon in terms of pitches. For a ballpark guess, let's say every Boulder Canyon sport climb averages 10 bolts. That means there are 8,540 bolts (854 X 10). However, many of the routes on El Cap have 3 bolts at the belay. Let's say the average number of pitches per El Cap route is 25. So El Cap has 7,350 bolts ONLY counting the belays (98 X 25 X 3). However, this underestimates the number of bolts since many of the pitches have lead or aid bolts on the pitches. As an example, Warren Harding placed over 300 bolts on ONE route - the Wall of the Early Morning Light! That's makes up one third of the difference between Boulder Canyon and El Cap. I would say that El Cap may actually have MORE bolts than Boulder Canyon sport routes! Unfortunate that so many bolts have been added to El Cap. Robbins and crew only placed 13 bolts on the first ascent of the Salathe Wall - it now sports well over a hundred!

You also assume that all belays are bolted on all routes, which is not true. Even the Nose is not 100% bolted belays (or at least it wasent when I climbed it in 2011), although it was close. Further, a number of belays are made up of fixed pieces line pins, which I would argue do not count as a bolt.

Maybe it's closer than I thought.

El Cap has the longest sport route.

Arlo F Niederer wrote:I would say that El Cap may actually have MORE bolts than Boulder Canyon sport routes!

I would agree. Some of the belays have up to 5 or 6 bolts old and new.

Rick Blair wrote:If the earth ever needs to be towed into another orbit, Boulder Canyon will be used as a hitch. That's how many bolts there are in BoCan.

Brilliant

Does not seem that long ago when I was living in New Hampshire the placing of just one bolt caused havoc among the climbing community ...When climbing years later in Utah got criticized for not placing enough !! ..Yes attitudes have changed..

USBRIT wrote:Does not seem that long ago when I was living in New Hampshire the placing of just one bolt caused havoc among the climbing community ...When climbing years later in Utah got criticized for not placing enough !! ..Yes attitudes have changed..

IMO, that comparison is more regional based than in changing attitudes.