Physical Fitness Assessments Specific to Rock Climbers

SKA wrote: Well Aleks, coming from the running world, the marathon runners that make it to the Olympics are not the fastest, they are just the fastest uninjured runners during tryouts. If you follow the climber world, everyone gets injured, particularly in the shoulders. When I was young I was invincible like yourself and just climbed all the time, at my age I have to do injury prevention. I am not invincible anymore . . . And believe me, I wish I could just climb all day every day, that is how I got so strong in the first place, aside from avoiding crimpers.

climbing friend,

it may not be a true binary scenario, yes, where you can only train to avoid injury yes, perhaps you look to your climbing volume, style, postural and movement faults, and can make intelligent changes, myah? Doing certain types of hard training, yes, injure to almost everyone, such as lunging and slapping around on the campus board with no feet in desperate hope it will somehow help send your project rocks.

For examples, my shoulder is most mighty and strong, and I crush the many climbing rocks, but I am too scare to thrust up and slap on the campus board, for I feel my shoulder will tear apart.

Even when I have been able to build my sexual frustration enough to allow me some weeks of trying the fingering board of hangs, I find even this hanging dead can aggravate my mighty and meat-filled shoulder. Perhaps strange, yes, since thrusting up the steep boulder problem on the climbing rocks does not aggravate the same.

good luck to you in your training and pursuit of the SKA musical genre. I hope you may thrust up with a pure heart, clear mind, and no injury, and experience the bold flash outdoor climbing rocks soon.

Great post. I have always thought that a very useful resource to help us improve as climbers would be data that averages 5.11/5.12/13 climber's core strength, pull up strength, grip strength, etc.

With that information we could identify our strengths and weaknesses, and target those weaknesses to rapidly improve overall climbing ability. For example, I could look at other 5.12 climbers and see where I compare in different areas to find my weakness.

This relies on the "weakest link" theory in which the fastest road to improvement is to strengthen the weakest link.

Eric D wrote:Great post. I have always thought that a very useful resource to help us improve as climbers would be data that averages 5.11/5.12/13 climber's core strength, pull up strength, grip strength, etc.

Climbing friend,

Do you mean not "crushing grip strength?"

SKA wrote:...but there is a correlation with a climber’s general fitness and climbing level...

i think this is where you are heading off into left field. there is little, if any, real data that indicates that this is the case. in theory, you would think there would be some sort of correlation between all of these exercises and climbing level, but it doesn't really seem to pan out that way. looking back at my entire climbing career, when i have been strongest in these types of exercises i haven't really climbed at my peak.

my guess is that, if there was some sort of huge survey/experiment we would find that the results would be fairly random. many of the folks who climb at a high level are just naturally all around strong as shit. then, there are folks who climb very hard who are surprisingly weak in a lot of areas. then there are folks who are strong as shit, but can't really seem to climb as hard as you would think they should.

will getting stronger in these areas hurt? no, i don't really think so, provided that it isn't at the expense of rest/recovery/injury. i think the best reason for trying to get stronger in these areas is injury prevention. strengthening the supporting muscles, and possibly having strength to have several options on how to perform a sequence.

I think you need a better core assessment so maybe planks and something for flexibility as in high stepping but I don't know hot to measure that

Ondra reckons you can climb up to V7 with out needing to do a single pull up, but he says nothing about core strength. Everybody forgets that core strength is going to be the 2nd most important factor to if you complete the route or not second only to finger strength (for obvious reasons). But this doesn't mean they are weak they probably have a stronger core than you.
Also ever since i started working core my bouldering grade has gone up 2 grades, that's in 3 weeks! (my core was and is shockingly shit)

that guy named seb wrote:Ondra reckons you can climb up to V7 with out needing to do a single pull up, but he says nothing about core strength. Everybody forgets that core strength is going to be the 2nd most important factor to if you complete the route or not second only to finger strength (for obvious reasons). But this doesn't mean they are weak they probably have a stronger core than you. Also ever since i started working core my bouldering grade has gone up 2 grades, that's in 3 weeks! (my core was and is shockingly shit)

Climbing friend,

Nothing is mattering except how far you can thrust up, and also the girth of your neck meat.

Aleks Zebastian wrote: Climbing friend, Nothing is mattering except how far you can thrust up, and also the girth of your neck meat.

My neck is stronger than my core.

that guy named seb wrote: My neck is stronger than my core.

Climbing friend,

Then you must be quite good at thrusting up as well, yes!

Here's one exercise to work both core and high stepping:

In the plank position, draw one leg up to touch your knee to your elbow, hip turned out. As you bring your knee up/forward, it is pointing outward, not down at the floor. Don't mess up the form of your plank e.g. stick your butt in the air. Then bring your leg down/back to the plank position and do the other leg, over and over.

If the goal of your training is injury prevention, I'm confused why you're doing 105 lb weighted pullups.

The payoff of training is sending harder outside.

D B wrote:If the goal of your training is injury prevention, I'm confused why you're doing 105 lb weighted pullups. The payoff of training is sending harder outside.

My overall goal is injury prevention - no question, but honestly I want to get super strong too. (Strength to weight ratio)

Finding your 1RM (1 Rep Max)is used to determine a proper training weight and a way to measure growth. "The protocol for effective strength training is to do brief exercises (3 to 5 reps or 90% of 1RM)."

FROM: climbing.com/skills/tech-ti…

"Weighted pull-ups. This may be the single-most effective strength training exercise for intermediate and advanced climbers."

FROM: nicros.com/training/article…

Overview of Maximum Strength Training
In climbing, your level of maximum strength in the forearm flexor and pulling muscles (of the arms and torso) is a common physical limitation. Gripping small holds, making a powerful arm pull, and locking off with one arm all command your muscles to contract briefly with near maximal force. Interestingly, your ability to rest effectively on a barely adequate medium-sized hold and express strength endurance on a pumpy sequence is also a function of your maximum strength. Therefore, training for greater absolute grip and pulling strength is the single most important aspect of an effective training-for-climbing program.

Let me respectfully suggest that there are far more up to date and relevant material, than the chronically repeated and not terribly helpful advice from Mr Horst. If you haven't noticed, it has been serially recycled over the course of many years, in many books with different titles.

Agree with above, the least likely way to really improve your climbing is doing pullups with massive amounts of weight, but will certainly be more likely to produce injuries. To be blunt, you really need to assess where your weaknesses are, and if you are like most, they are your fingers.

Hangboarding is not glamorous, but unless you were blessed with talons, will likely yield far greater results and less injuries.

Reading your post, you have already identified your weakness - crimps, which are not going to improve no matter how many pullups you do. If you could do zero pullups, there might be rationale to train, but you are falling prey to the largest problem in climbing - training your strengths (as evidenced by the fact you can do pullups with > 100 pounds around your waist).

Eva Lopez

Steve Bechtel

Kris Hampton

Dave Macleod

Gimme Kraft

Rock Climbers Training Manual

www.trainHardButSmart.com

slim wrote: in theory, you would think there would be some sort of correlation between all of these exercises and climbing level, but it doesn't really seem to pan out that way.

Do you agree that a solid strong core will improve your climbing? Static Control? I am not stating that the number of sit-ups one can do in a minute is an indicator of ones climbing ability, but it is a measurement of core strength. I can't even remember the last time I did sit-ups and do not use them in my training, but I have a weekly TRX workout. Though, increasing ones core strength will increase the number of sit ups they can do in a minute.

I did my first 1-minute sit-up test on Monday. I was able to do 51. I did more during the Presidential physical fitness test in 4th grade.

~SKA

Paul Hassett wrote: Agree with above, the least likely way to really improve your climbing is doing pullups with massive amounts of weight, but will certainly be more likely to produce injuries. To be blunt, you really need to assess where your weaknesses are, and if you are like most, they are your fingers. Hangboarding is not glamorous, but unless you were blessed with talons, will likely yield far greater results and less injuries.

I am not directly looking for training exercises for climbing, but exploring ways to evaluate my general fitness as it pertains to climbing.

In an ideal world, I would be climbing, running or hiking every day. I started climbing in 1989 and climbed every time I had a chance . . . and that is exactly what I did. I spent 30+ hours a week climbing . . . spring - fall. Then I caved, ice climbed, skied, mountain climbed and iced climbed on the off season. For those 18 years, I never once stepped in a gym (weight room). Volume!

Now after a 7 year break, my general fitness is not there anymore. Correct, strength is my ‘strength’ and it always has been; pull-ups are what I looked at first.

I have tons of weaknesses and that is exactly what I want to evaluate, like flexibility and core. But what are my general fitness weaknesses? Likethe strain of fall/landing when bouldering. My overall fitness for climbing from my 20s to my mid 30s was very well rounded because of my foundation and youth. I did not need to train, I just climbed all the time with seasonal “cross-training” breaks. In high school, I was a runner, jumper, hurdler, and pole vaulter. Think of it as, a gymnast switching to climbing versus a non-athlete transitioning into climbing, they will have different first experiences; granted neither could hang off a small crimp.

~SKA

SKA wrote:exploring ways to evaluate my general fitness as it pertains to climbing.

So that's one goal ...
1) general fitness
Also you've expressed strong desire for two more goals:
2) avoiding injury
3) get super-strong (strength to weight ratio).

Sounds like you must have lots of time on your hands, to pursue all three of those at once.

SKA wrote: Do you agree that a solid strong core will improve your climbing? Static Control? I am not stating that the number of sit-ups one can do in a minute is an indicator of ones climbing ability, but it is a measurement of core strength. I can't even remember the last time I did sit-ups and do not use them in my training, but I have a weekly TRX workout. Though, increasing ones core strength will increase the number of sit ups they can do in a minute. I did my first 1-minute sit-up test on Monday. I was able to do 51. I did more during the Presidential physical fitness test in 4th grade. ~SKA

I recommend that you differentiate between core "strength" and stability strategies before you decide that you need to strengthen your core. Many people employ the wrong muscle patterning strategy to manage their pelvis and ribs such as using obliques, quadratus lumburom, etc. leading them to believe that their cores are weak when faced with an external force. Climbing is not a static strength sport, it requires dynamic movement through the core and the proper sequencing and muscle patterning from the lower body through the mid section and finally through the upper body.

Climbers also tend to intermix the terms "stiffness" with "stability" etc. Mid section "Stiffness" is important during compressive exercises such as squatting heavy weights, but it is the wrong strategy for most climbing situations where the goal is to reach the next hold. Studies have indicated that martial artists in the process of executing a round kick will tone their abdominal muscles at the initiation of lower body movement relax through the mid range of movement (allowing for extension) and tone once more at the point of impact to generate the most force and stability. I think that is a better model for climbers to emulate when going for a deadpoint, etc. Keeping a "tight" core during movement is self-limiting as it prevents optimal reach.

Sit-ups are typically not recommended to instill dynamic control of how you body functions from the lower body through the core and upper body. "Dead-bug" exercises, properly executed will be more effective in this respect and there are other exercises that incorporate rotational components that complement climbing movement.

Rui Ferreira wrote: Studies have indicated that martial artists in the process of executing a round kick will tone their abdominal muscles at the initiation of lower body movement relax through the mid range of movement (allowing for extension) and tone once more at the point of impact to generate the most force and stability.

I think this is confusing the issue slightly. There are different styles of round kicks. For the sake of discussion, we'll consider the type that aims to generate the most impact force (destructive power) vs carry the most energy (typically for kicking a ball or in "push-off" kicks).

To generate power in a round motion, whether it's a round kick or a round (hook) punch, you are trying to convert the rotational momentum of the body as power to the end point. You can deliberately open up/extend the hip or the shoulder (cocking it back), or not (faster & less telepathic), the hip or shoulder still open up thru the movement. Either way, the ab muscles needed to rotate the body (minus the kicking leg or the punching arm) are engaged the whole time. At the point of impact, the muscles controlling the limb angle need to tighten to transfer that power. For a punch this requires the same ab muscles used for the body rotation, as well as upper body muscles like shoulder, chest, etc. For a kick this does require parts of the ab muscles that controls the hip angle wrt the kicking leg, but probably not the same as the ones for rotating the rest of the lower body that are engaged throughout the movement.

kenr wrote: So that's one goal ... 1) general fitness Also you've expressed strong desire for two more goals: 2) avoiding injury 3) get super-strong (strength to weight ratio). Sounds like you must have lots of time on your hands, to pursue all three of those at once.

You could look at it that way. I feel as an older climber overall gymnastic fitness is directly related to injury prevention and should always be part of my training. I wish I could climb outdoors every day, but I can’t. In terms of general fitness, I just came off a 5 year mountain ultra-running binge with an emphasis on running up. I ran too many 50 milers and a handful of 100 milers, including 1 ultra with over 32,000 feet of climbing. The main muscle groups are a bit different, but there are some overlapping muscle groups. I would not say general fitness is a goal, but I want to evaluate my gymnastic fitness as it pertains to climbing. By analyzing my gymnastic fitness, I feel I will be able to better pin point my some of my physical weaknesses.

In terms of time, not as much as I would like, I am averaging 12 - 15 hours a week. Not enough . . .