Ergonomic Hangboard ?

I find hangboarding stressful on the shoulders. Would a hangboard that allows your hands to pronate be more ergonomic? Does anyone have experience with a hangboard mounted like this, as if on an arete? The Trango board could easily be rigged this way.

Sorry for the terrible picture, but this is meant to illustrate two half-boards meeting to form a corner.

It would be pretty tempting to use compression to improve your grip.

No experience with a setup like that but I think shoulder stress can be greatly reduced with proper form. I like to imagine a rubber band between my elbows, and consciously pull them towards each other.
This is good form:
youtube.com/watch?v=O6aKqcQ…

The setup you describe would work different muscles than a flat hangboard. This may be useful for arete climbing, but not for flat wall climbing.

My elbows disagree strongly with hangboards, but Rock Rings etc, which allow rotation, are fine. I use G Strings ( sicgrips.com) and am really happy with them.

Stephen Minchin wrote:My elbows disagree strongly with hangboards, but Rock Rings etc, which allow rotation, are fine. I use G Strings ( sicgrips.com) and am really happy with them.

This is the way to go if you want to pronate.

I also support hangboarding with bodyweight or less in order to figure out proper form. Bad form can actually allow you to hang more weight or smaller holds, but at the cost of discomfort and possible damage to your shoulders or elbows.

Actually, coldatom, your set-up is creating more supination and less pronation. Yes, this would be more ergonomic on your shoulders particularly in the sense that it should reduce impingement (which is something I also have trouble with while using a hangboard, regardless of how well I try to maintain my form and scapular position). Also, it is important to maintain good scapular engagement regardless of whether a hangboard is oriented flat or angled.

It will not change the muscles worked in the forearm or hand imo (the main point of a hangboard, yes?). The muscles attaching at the elbow are basically the same used to grip the hangboard regardless of its orientation (there may be a slight change in the angle of some fibers, but I am not sure this would make a huge difference in the recruitment of the overall finger flexor group).

I would experiment with what works best for your shoulders. Impinging the joint repeatedly is not a good road to go down, and anatomical differences mean some people impinge far easier than others. Removing some body weight will also help keep the space more open in the joint and allow your scapular retractors/depressors to better maintain this space.

you may tolerate this configuration better than the standard position, but overtime this might in turn complicate your regular climbing movement.

You might want to consider having a movement assessment done and addressing underlying issues that bring discomfort to the standard hanging position.

+1 for Aerili's comment.

If a slightly altered hang-board set up makes a difference in strength gains they are easily off-set by lesser damage to the shoulder joint. Consistent training will get you farther in the long run than doing an exercise that injuries you b/c everyone else thinks it is a good idea (or the only way).

Compare it to an overhead lift with a barbell vs. dumbbells. Dumbbells allow the arm to supinate as the dumbbell goes overhead. Ring pull-ups vs bar - Same thing the hand naturally rotates through the motion.

When you climb steeps, you generally turn in with one arm overhead and the hand is supinated. If you match a hold, the arms are not directly overhead. On vertical terrain on hand match on the same hold where the hand is positioned as it on HB, weight is removed b/c feet are on the wall.

Also consider off-set hand positions for hangboarding workouts instead.

Rui Ferreira wrote:you may tolerate this configuration better than the standard position, but overtime this might in turn complicate your regular climbing movement.

I think your suggestion of movement screening is valid, but I don't really agree that hangboarding at a more neutral (isometric) angle is likely to have negative impacts on kinematics during actual climbing.

Stephen Minchin wrote:My elbows disagree strongly with hangboards, but Rock Rings etc, which allow rotation, are fine. I use G Strings ( sicgrips.com) and am really happy with them.

I second this, the rock rings rotate freely so you can be in whatever position comes naturally throughout the whole motion.

Aerili wrote: I think your suggestion of movement screening is valid, but I don't really agree that hangboarding at a more neutral (isometric) angle is likely to have negative impacts on kinematics during actual climbing.

we can disagree, but let's say that the shoulder issue is impingement (of the humeral head bumping into the acromium) perhaps due to to poor scapular mobility, changing the position of the shoulder anteriorly is not going to eliminate said impingement and its complications.

So, if there is some underlying mobility issue that is causing the shoulder pain, avoiding that position does not necessarily make the issue go away, but by ingraining a new movement pattern one is likely to negatively alter overall function. This translates during climbing by one avoiding positions that are less than "neutral - your definition", which in "my opinion" limits function.

This brings up the second point, increased strength is only accessible in functional joints, if one has limited joint mobility that added strength is wasted if only accessible in a "neutral" position. One cannot ignore the kinetic chain even if this particular strength training is targeting the forearms.

Structure dictates function, but poor function over time ultimately changes structure and here it appears to be such a case.

Rui Ferreira wrote: we can disagree, but let's say that the shoulder issue is impingement (of the humeral head bumping into the acromium) perhaps due to to poor scapular mobility, changing the position of the shoulder anteriorly is not going to eliminate said impingement and its complications. So, if there is some underlying mobility issue that is causing the shoulder pain, avoiding that position does not necessarily make the issue go away,

Oh, I never said that. Eliminating the impingement certainly takes more than just avoidance. And I don't know the specific causes behind this person's "stress on the shoulders", I've never seen him/her move, so I definitely wouldn't make a statement that it is caused by any one thing (like poor mobility).

Rui Ferreira wrote:but by ingraining a new movement pattern one is likely to negatively alter overall function. This translates during climbing by one avoiding positions that are less than "neutral - your definition", which in "my opinion" limits function. This brings up the second point, increased strength is only accessible in functional joints, if one has limited joint mobility that added strength is wasted if only accessible in a "neutral" position. One cannot ignore the kinetic chain even if this particular strength training is targeting the forearms. Structure dictates function, but poor function over time ultimately changes structure and here it appears to be such a case.

I do not agree that hangboarding (a typically isometric exercise) with a few degrees internal rotation in the glenohumeral joint will "ingrain a new movement pattern". A static posture doesn't suffice as skill training in my book, nor do I believe there is any evidence that his added grip strength will only be accessible in a more neutral shoulder position. The elbow, wrist, and finger postures are unlikely to change in any statistically meaningful way in my view, and these are the joints where the targeted muscle attachments exist/act over.

I do agree that function can affect structure; by continuing to engage in activities that impinge a shoulder (with or without general shoulder mobility improvements, strengthening, etc), I believe this can contribute to progressive rotator cuff disease.

What it boils down to is that it's the OP's call to make for their own body. Working on scapular strength and glenohumeral mobility ain't bad ideas. But I support a hangboard modification (either just for now, or forever) if makes a difference for this person's training abilities.

Replying to the OP, hangboarding on its own should not cause shoulder pain. I do not know if changing the position of the board is going to alleviate discomfort and if it does not then have a professional assessment to determine what is the cause of the discomfort (could be several). It is counterproductive to try strengthening exercises in the presence of pain.

My advice would be to try it and see. Making up a way to mount the boards should be pretty easy - if it doesn't help you can always change it back again. :)

While I personally don't find any discomfort in my shoulders while hang-boarding, I found Rui and Aerili's posts quite fun and interesting to read... Thanks for that.

Leif E wrote:While I personally don't find any discomfort in my shoulders while hang-boarding, I found Rui and Aerili's posts quite fun and interesting to read... Thanks for that.

Any time you can get Rui or Aerlii to start commenting, you are certain to learn something.

I'd like some advice on impingement in general. As I get into some offwidth training (obviously totally different than hangboarding), I'm finding myself heading down a dangerous road. OW is terrible on the shoulders.

So I've been concentrating on lots of different exercises to improve my scapular motion/strength. Is there more I should be doing?

Ray

you can start with this video to understand what the shoulder is and how it works

youtube.com/watch?v=D3GVKje…

best advice however when experiencing pain/limited range of motion/discomfort/weakness is to seek professional help: PT, chiropractor, etc. to have an expert opinion about your specific shoulder function/dysfunction. Look for someone that can then prescribe corrective exercises specific to your climbing needs.

A simple test is the overhead reach, can you raise your arms overhead to 90 degrees without pain and/or compensation in your lumbar spine or pelvis/hips?

There are many corrective exercises online to enhance mobility, stability, etc. but if there are other issues going on these exercises may not be appropriate as the starting point to "stress-proof" the shoulders.

You can also Google Mike Reinold and/or Eric Cressey and you will find a wealth of shoulder information.

You might be best served by talking to an actual Physical Therapist or MD. Some causes of impingement may need surgery to fix - and others not so much. And is it really impingement - have you diagnosed yourself here or have you seen an actual doctor?

Aerili wrote: A static posture doesn't suffice as skill training in my book.

Maintaining good static form or the 'correct posture' while hanging is the skill. I see people ingrain terrible static postures all the time.

Rui

Some of us have been climbing 20 years and over time have torn the labrum, the cartilage connecting the humeral head to the scapula. The corrective surgery did not hold for more than 5 years. Different positioning of the hang board may cause less impingement in such circumstances. Keeping the upper back muscles strong helps, but whatever works for a given shoulder is worth trying.