New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

Cross posting Tony's thread here....

Chop ! Chop ! Chop !

If I were a Yosemite aficionado, I'd be all over this...
I am disgusted, as is.
Alas, it is very far away.

K Weber wrote: With your explanation on how much work is left and your current rate of speed there is approximately 168.94592 weeks till publication of "YOSEMITE: The MOST COMPREHENSIVE CLIMBERS GUIDE PRINTED" .

That was funny, though.

Eli Buzzell wrote: Yes, let's try to derail this whole thread with how much everyone doesn't like the government. That will bring back a sense of community around here!

Not at all the point.
The point was to ask how many large projects have a deadline, and how a person sets their expectations.
Some organizations rarely make a deadline, and never meet them when they do.
Between author and publisher, who must then contact printer and binder, the word 'deadline' is a fools word. 'EDC' (estimated date of completion) is more the norm, and even then, notoriously late.
Authors can't estimate a publishers schedule, BTW, because the publisher does not know how much work will go into edit and copy prior to it being printable...

But then again, what would I know?
(More than you'd think if you think it is nothing.)

Tony B wrote: The point was to ask how many large projects have a deadline, and how a person sets their expectations.

We get it... but the poster asked for a date (I assume) because the author of the alternate guidebook project has been working on it for a while & made it sound like maybe it won't take forever for it to come out. A lot of people want to know if they can afford to wait for this presumably better & guilt-free version. You are basically saying it's not possible to know, which means all that talk from the author isn't helping anybody making an informed decision.

reboot wrote: We get it... but the poster asked for a date (I assume) because the author of the alternate guidebook project has been working on it for a while & made it sound like maybe it won't take forever for it to come out. A lot of people want to know if they can afford to wait for this presumably better & guilt-free version. You are basically saying it's not possible to know, which means all that talk from the author isn't helping anybody making an informed decision.

All this ranting and challenging and angst about estimated publication dates makes Yosemite sound like some newly discovered climbing area that has never been documented before.

reboot wrote: We get it... but the poster asked for a date (I assume) because the author of the alternate guidebook project has been working on it for a while & made it sound like maybe it won't take forever for it to come out. A lot of people want to know if they can afford to wait for this presumably better & guilt-free version. You are basically saying it's not possible to know, which means all that talk from the author isn't helping anybody making an informed decision.

I'm with you and I'm curious too.
I'm not saying that there can't be an EDC, what I am saying is that KNOWING is impossible and there are not DEADLINES. So perhaps reasked about estimated dates for the author's submission to edit/copy or to the publisher is more on point. You might get an answer that way.
What I will say is that you can be pretty sure the shelf date is a year + since they haven't said.
But then again, Eric has not said for his book either, which makes that a minimum of months. Obviously he isn't done with Edit/copy if he's still asking for pictures now.
So we're talking some edit/copy time depending on the publisher... then a print time, which depends on who/where the printing is done (I'm guessing Asia) and proof/approval. Then the binder... then shipping, then distribution to the shelf.
I can't figure any less than 6 months, but I bet more for Erik's book.

I'll be willing to whip the other guys for a date when I know when Erik's date is. After all, the arguement about waiting is about an A-B equation, and we don't even know when B is yet, do we?
So what do you expect A - B to be even if you know A?

That's quite the chip on your shoulder, K Weber. Why so angry, kiddo?

It's not as though any of the guidebook authors have any obligation to us at all, given that the vast majority of us have invested exactly nothing in moving either one of these projects forward.

I am also waiting for new comprehensive guide and desperate to see it in my hands. And I hope I will get it by time I would be still able to climb.
But at the same time no matter how long it take for the comprehensive guide to be publish - I would not be tempted to get Sloan select guide for many reasons.
Main reason I do not want to support him -since he is bringing along with his new select guide the wrong crowd of climbers who approved his arrogant actions. And so far Sloan alone- he is not a big deal, but many of his clones can change Yosemite climbing forever. I do not want to be around laud and obnoxious climbers taking hours with aiding free classic routes, forcing me to listen there shitty loud music and spraying unwanted beta, how they "totally crashed" the route or route "totally crashed" them.

I keep hearing about the bolt anchor on BOR but just so we all know, how many extra bolts has Eric added on other climbs as well? 10? 20? Or just on BOR? Does anyone know?

Erik has places well over 2000 bolts in Yosemite Valley though the vast majority were to replace old bolts so who knows...

Spiny Norman wrote:That's quite the chip on your shoulder, K Weber. Why so angry, kiddo? It's not as though any of the guidebook authors have any obligation to us at all, given that the vast majority of us have invested exactly nothing in moving either one of these projects forward.

member for 6 days and trolling already, Supertopo must be dead as usual huh?

I'd still like to hear the completion date of Ed and Clints book, it couldnt be too hard to answer this could it?

This threads energy just seems quite a bit elevated for the particular circumstances. I in NO WAY condone adding bolts to climbs without the first assentionists permission but... as far as I have gathered about Eric's transgression is that he added a mid way anchor on 1 route (which was undoubtedly wrong), the anchors have been chopped and he also has replaced over 2000 bolts as a service to the climbing community (which was undoubtedly kind and generous). So is there more to this story? Like did he do A BUNCH more things that no one is talking about or is everyone just really really really pissed about the single mid way anchor? Again, what he did was wrong but the response to that one action which has been corrected (by being chopped) seems a little over the top. I've had to chop a bolt on an existing route before, one that was added without the first assentionists approval, but I chopped it and that was it, I don't ABSOLUTLY hate the guy that did it. I got proactive, corrected the problem and moved on with my life. This seems like no one is going to let Eric move on with his life or climbing passion anymore without having a ton of people wanting to punch him on the wall or something. I don't know, seems overly harsh to me. Even though I DO think that what he DID DO was wrong.

Jon,
That's not the only case. It is the latest case in which he's threatened a bolt war if anyone chops the bolts. It is perhaps the most absurd in its defense.
There is a reason why the ASCA has severed relationships with him. It's about placing new bolts on existing climbs.

Jon Hartmann wrote:This threads energy just seems quite a bit elevated for the particular circumstances. I in NO WAY condone adding bolts to climbs without the first assentionists permission but... as far as I have gathered about Eric's transgression is that he added a mid way anchor on 1 route (which was undoubtedly wrong), the anchors have been chopped and he also has replaced over 2000 bolts as a service to the climbing community (which was undoubtedly kind and generous). So is there more to this story? Like did he do A BUNCH more things that no one is talking about or is everyone just really really really pissed about the single mid way anchor? Again, what he did was wrong but the response to that one action which has been corrected (by being chopped) seems a little over the top. I've had to chop a bolt on an existing route before, one that was added without the first assentionists approval, but I chopped it and that was it, I don't ABSOLUTLY hate the guy that did it. I got proactive, corrected the problem and moved on with my life. This seems like no one is going to let Eric move on with his life or climbing passion anymore without having a ton of people wanting to punch him on the wall or something. I don't know, seems overly harsh to me. Even though I DO think that what he DID DO was wrong.

Feel free to join the internet warrior witch hunt, it really has nothing to do with real life or the multiple thousands of climbers who dont care about some anchors added to a few routes. They will buy the book just to have some new beta, no matter what Tony from Boulderado or spiny from ?? says.

I'm actually relieved to hear that Tony. So much hate for one instance seemed unwarranted. I was begining to wonder at the potential rabid pack mentality of climbers and was hoping I never fall so short in the eyes of MP. As long as this is something he's been continually doing and claims to do again against the climbing communities desires and ethics, I won't buy his guidebook either. It would help bolster this threads opinion of him if more of his naughty "doings" were brought into the light for the uniformed. Not buying his guidebook based on the current information in this thread doesn't seem like enough evidence for the common 'not eaisily angered' climber to base a decision off of. It would probably help everyone's cause for someone to put up a list of all or a majority of Eric's non ethical actions to help others make an informed decision on whether buying his guide book is a place in which ones money should go.

Hi Gang,

Thank you so much for the photos. There is still plenty of room to get your pics in the book, so if you have some good stuff please email it to me at erik@yosemitebigwall.com

If you are a professional photographer, consider contributing some photos in exchange for ads in the book, as your contribution to your community. Several pros have already signed on, but it would be great to really go big with the photos in this one.

If I use one or two photos you will get a free book and and your name in the acknowledgment page. If I use several of your photos I will happily put your name on the cover of the book.

Just reading the last several posts quickly, it seems like folks are obsessed with the timeline:

I'm hoping to have the App out by Christmas. The edits finished by late Feb/Early March, and the printed book out next June.

As always, I"m happy to talk ethics with you guys, on a separate thread.

Have an awesome weekend. Go Climbing!
Woot Woot!
Erik
Yosemitebigwall.com

Can I get a woot! Woot! from y'all?!

I can't hear you!

Erik Sloan wrote: If you are a professional photographer, consider contributing some photos in exchange for ads in the book, as your contribution to your community. Several pros have already signed on, but it would be great to really go big with the photos in this one. If I use one or two photos you will get a free book and and your name in the acknowledgment page.

My car need a little work. If you are a professional mechanic, and you fix it, I will put a vanity plate with your business name on it on my car. I have the most basic things fixed, but if you want to help me soup it up, I'll offer you recognition.
I'll also give you a free ride in my car.

This isn't just Erik, this is the whole industry.
I guess some folks work for free, but I can't figure how they make a living doing that.

Erik Sloan wrote:As always, I"m happy to talk ethics with you guys, on a separate thread. Have an awesome weekend.

Well, like it or not, this is the thread where we're talking ethics and so far you've made it abundantly clear you aren't interested in discussing ethics on any thread on any forum. If that's not the case then I would challenge you to start a retrobolting ethics thread either here or on ST. I won't hold my breath in the meantime.

[Or, I see someone started another thread here - don't see a post of yours on that thread yet; wherea are you willing to discuss the ethics of retrobolting?]

Erik Sloan wrote: As always, I"m happy to talk ethics with you guys, on a separate thread.

Like this one?
mountainproject.com/v/retro…

I'm sure you just hadn't noticed it yet - but now that we have the thread, and you've said you're happy to talk ethics with us, I'm looking forward to the constructive conversation we've all been hoping for!

I find it interesting that you seem to feel very strongly that the intention and vision of the original poster of a thread should be preserved, and resent any changes made by later posters to the character of the thread.

Reflecting on this, do you notice any irony here?