Montana murder suspect charged for 2013 Ten Sleep Canyon shooting

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why when i show people this graph, or similar, is there total denial? It is just a graph....

USBRIT wrote: Guns are extremely difficult to obtain legally in the UK.

this strikes me as a rather adsurd statement. I'm sure that it's true, but who actually thinks a criminal who wants a gun will go through legal means? What does that law actually do other than disarm law-abiding citizens? Any half-smart criminal isn't going to go through all the paperwork and background checks. A. they probably wouldn't pass and B. even if they did, there would be a paper trail...

Zac.St.Jules wrote:So how do you Brits overthrow the government if needed? ;)

As in normal civilized countries with a vote.Unless of course you yourself support the Isis methods.Overall its a silly redneck type question.

USBRIT wrote: As in normal civilized countries with a vote.Unless of course you yourself support the Isis methods.Overall its a silly redneck type question.

Brilliant! You obviously were edjaketed hear, huh?

Stagg54 wrote: this strikes me as a rather adsurd statement. I'm sure that it's true, but who actually thinks a criminal who wants a gun will go through legal means? What does that law actually do other than disarm law-abiding citizens? Any half-smart criminal isn't going to go through all the paperwork and background checks. A. they probably wouldn't pass and B. even if they did, there would be a paper trail...

I know a lot of people in the UK .probably at least 2000 who live in this town .. but do not know anyone that owns a gun.Living in western Colorado I did not know anyone including myself who did not own a gun .. Anyway its common knowledge that the States with its has lax gun laws is one if not the most violent country in the western world .. But as a lot of you chaps say .. so what ..you need guns in case the government attacks you...LOL

Stagg54 wrote: this strikes me as a rather adsurd statement. I'm sure that it's true, but who actually thinks a criminal who wants a gun will go through legal means? What does that law actually do other than disarm law-abiding citizens? Any half-smart criminal isn't going to go through all the paperwork and background checks. A. they probably wouldn't pass and B. even if they did, there would be a paper trail...

I could be wrong as I dont follow too closely, but I am under the impression that there is pretty strong empirical evidence that states with stronger gun "laws" (or restrictions, or whatever we call it) have far less incidences of gun violence.

Sure a hardset criminal will find a way to get a gun. But I think there are far too many average american running around with guns that end up using them in fits of rage that dont end up well for anyone. That recent college shoooting in Arizona is probably a good example.

USBRIT wrote: As in normal civilized countries with a vote.Unless of course you yourself support the Isis methods.Overall its a silly redneck type question.

If by redneck you mean working class white person, then yes. c'est moi.

if by redneck you mean hooting and hollerin, big truck driving, confederate supporter. Then no. I am from Canada.

My thought is this:
to think that ones country is to "civilized" for its citizens to own guns, and therefore keep them from owning guns, would be silly. History would not be on the side of the individual who thinks such things.

I do not support isis methods. I do however recognize that sometimes governments fail. There are even some recent examples of this.

Muscrat wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why when i show people this graph, or similar, is there total denial? It is just a graph....

Because correlation does not imply causation. Which is the most basic principle of any debate. Why is that so damn hard for people to understand... The fact that you think a single graph could explain such a complex issue clearly displays your understanding of said issue. if you'd like to read more about how your logic is full of fallacies click here .

try again?

So a fellow climber died, right? Shot dead at the crag? That's what this thread is about?

Zac.St.Jules wrote:My father-in-law has a theory that everyone should be required to carry a gun. So when someone walks in to rob a bank, their gonna think twice when they realize every mofo in there is carrying.

I have absolutely nothing against guns but do you really think that's a good idea? Look around at all the sketchy, marginal to downright irrational, hot-headed, angry, rednecky, less-than-bright people out there that would open fire over a minor conflict....

cragman2 wrote: I have absolutely nothing against guns but do you really think that's a good idea? Look around at all the sketchy, marginal to downright irrational, hot-headed, angry, rednecky, less-than-bright people out there that would open fire over a minor conflict....

But, that aside, this thread really shouldn't be a debate about guns (which would go on endlessly without any chance of resolution).
It's about a tragic loss of life by innocent climbers and my condolences to their friends and families...

C. Archibald wrote:So a fellow climber died, right? Shot dead at the crag? That's what this thread is about?

No, 'just' shot in the arm, in the middle of the night at a campsite, IIRC.
Still pretty harsh for your average road trip to Tensleep.

cragman2 wrote: I have absolutely nothing against guns but do you really think that's a good idea? Look around at all the sketchy, marginal to downright irrational, hot-headed, angry, rednecky, less-than-bright people out there that would open fire over a minor conflict....

...it might just work.... because all those sketchy, irrational, hot-headed people would quickly realize that when they go to pull out their gun, that everyone else also has an itchy trigger finger as well and are just as craycray as them...besides that, eventually this would help curb population growth as well... a win/win if you will! ;)

Zac.St.Jules wrote: I do not support isis methods. I do however recognize that sometimes governments fail. There are even some recent examples of this.

Very true!

jason.cre wrote: I could be wrong as I dont follow too closely, but I am under the impression that there is pretty strong empirical evidence that states with stronger gun "laws" (or restrictions, or whatever we call it) have far less incidences of gun violence. Sure a hardset criminal will find a way to get a gun. But I think there are far too many average american running around with guns that end up using them in fits of rage that dont end up well for anyone. That recent college shoooting in Arizona is probably a good example.

Well said spot on ..

Bryan Manning wrote: ...it might just work.... because all those sketchy, irrational, hot-headed people would quickly realize that when they go to pull out their gun, that everyone else also has an itchy trigger finger as well and are just as craycray as them...besides that, eventually this would help curb population growth as well... a win/win if you will! ;)

LOL. Sad thing is, I agree with the general concept of honest people being able to defend themselves (with guns if necessary) but there are just too many people that have guns and are just looking for trouble or at least to intimidate their "enemies".
George Zimmerman is a great example....

Mark E Dixon wrote: No, 'just' shot in the arm, in the middle of the night at a campsite, IIRC. Still pretty harsh for your average road trip to Tensleep.

Good to hear. Thought someone had been killed.
Still crappy....

Uh.... you read people's opinion's without reading the story? (He is charged with killing the parents of a family that stopped to help him this summer, his excuse was they were taking too long) I'm not sure, but it appears some of the commenters have strong opinions about a story they never read.

I'd say this story is good news, in that I figured the original Wyoming shooting would never be solved.

Also, in the article, the climber was shot in the chest not the arm. My memory of the original story was that he barely survived.

Also, in the article, no mention that any of the people that died were climbers.

Also, why would you need to use to use George Zimmerman, the Arizona college shooting, ISIS, the number of gun deaths in the US, etc. as a counterpoint when you have this guy?

Bottom line, Jesus should never have been allowed to have a gun, and all you guys suck

Steve Pulver wrote:Uh.... you read people's opinion's without reading the story? (He is charged with killing the parents of a family that stopped to help him this summer, his excuse was they were taking too long) I'm not sure, but it appears some of the commenters have strong opinions about a story they never read. I'd say this story is good news, in that I figured the original Wyoming shooting would never be solved. Also, in the article, the climber was shot in the chest not the arm. My memory of the original story was that he barely survived. Also, in the article, no mention that any of the people that died were climbers. Also, why would you need to use to use George Zimmerman, the Arizona college shooting, ISIS, etc. as a counterpoint when you have this guy?

My bad, it was his chest. Not sure about the extentof his injuries. This link seems most complete after a quick lookaround while at work.

dpmclimbing.com/articles/vi…

USBRIT wrote: I know a lot of people in the UK .probably at least 2000 who live in this town .. but do not know anyone that owns a gun.Living in western Colorado I did not know anyone including myself who did not own a gun .. Anyway its common knowledge that the States with its has lax gun laws is one if not the most violent country in the western world .. But as a lot of you chaps say .. so what ..you need guns in case the government attacks you...LOL

Of course you love government:

"More Brits are living off benefits today than at any other time since the establishment of the welfare state. Many claimants have spent longer on benefits than in work. Some have never known what it is to have a job and others have found that work simply does not pay."Why worry about government when it's the hand that feeds you?

And, Im glad they caught the drug addled scumbag that committed the crime and won't debate a hater that calls my country uncivilized - so carry on.