What Nobody is Saying About the Dawn Wall

USBRIT wrote:The Caldwall Hannold traverse in Patagonia is vastly more impressive than this physically difficult multi pitch sport climb.However hats off to the helpers and photographers.

I do not believe freeing Mescalito qualifies as a "multi pitch sport climb." There may be certain pitches that are bolted, but many rely on marginal beaks, heads and and other funky gear- all of which completely and utterly disqualify it from being a sport climb.

Marc801 wrote: What's so wrong with that article? It's not inaccurate, actually, and has about the right amount of detail for the target audience. Much of it is quotes from Kevin's FB page. Non-climbers just don't care about additional detail or being absolutely correct and precise.

Some things I noticed:

1. No continuity of thought, just a bunch of disjointed ideas; no clear conclusion: I was expecting another paragraph below the picture, after the mention of the Harding FA.

2. Does a terrible job of describing a multi-pitch climb. Makes it look like one person is constantly trying to "catch up" with the other, and that somehow this is an essential part of the process. Also, they make it sound like the catching up is only rarely accomplished on the occasional ledge that appears on the wall.

3. Fails to convey what is significant about this climb. What are the essential differences between the current effort and the style of the 1970 FA? They mention "countless rivets" without any effort at explaining to a lay audience what the rivets are used for, why that matters, or how it's different from the current effort.

4. What's the significance of the "27 days" it took the FA party or that they "turned down a rescue attempt"? How is any of that relevant to the current narrative?

5. Does a bad job of explaining what a free climb is (mentions ropes with no mention of protection, and never even mentions the essential difference between a free climb and an aid climb). And does it twice. Ineffective despite the redundancy. And judging by the repetition the failure of clear communication can't be blamed on a need for brevity.

6. Horrendous paragraph structure. Single sentences rarely make for complete paragraphs, yet the article is littered with them. Articles composed of only one and two-sentence paragraphs are often no more than the result of someone pasting together a collection of related but disjointed thoughts with no effort at actually constructing a cohesive narrative. This article is a prime example.

Some of these problems may seem unrelated to the writer being insufficiently prepared to talk about the subject they are covering, but I have a feeling that the lack of clear understanding has a compounding effect on the overall poor quality.

Alex McIntyre wrote: I do not believe freeing Mescalito qualifies as a "multi pitch sport climb." There may be certain pitches that are bolted, but many rely on marginal beaks, heads and and other funky gear- all of which completely and utterly disqualify it from being a sport climb.

It seems on many of the pitches ....top rope practice , pre-placed pro (some extended ), perhaps adding a few bolts from above and holds chalk-marked makes it pretty darn close... of course that's what makes climbing this grade possible. In that sense it is a very good effort . I might be wrong but thought with pure trad climbing you placed your pro on lead,and I'll count clipping quick draws on a pro bolt that was perhaps originally placed on lead.I have to agree of course that pre -place pro is now a well accepted technique as is practice and the chalk marking of all the holds.The Traverse in Patagonia by Caldwell and Hannold one could say is a very good example of a trad climb.

I enjoyed the article, thanks for posting. Not surprising that is has inspired so much exasperated ranting, even after your thoughtful introduction. But I'm sure you anticipated that.

Your idea about athleticism creeping into big wall climbing, and how it is antithetical to adventure really resonated for me. I really doubt there's any way to slow that progression, its just a new style. I find the style really impressive, but not personally very compelling.

Seeing mainstream media eager to crown Tommy the 'best climber in the world' really highlights how misunderstood climbing is by the general public. There is no best climber in the same way that there is no best musician. The media really only have the athletic 'lens' through which to view climbing, so of course they wonder who is Jordan.

I think there's plenty of adventure left, it just may not grab the headlines and the sponsorships.

Stone Nude wrote:Paul, since you hail from across the pond, maybe you'd be willing to amend your aspersion to call it a headpoint with a lot of fixed gear?

Sorry climbed so much in the US on trad will have to find out what a head point is .. or any other point for that matter!Its all getting way too complicated for us old chaps....I guess they are all different ways of cheating?

What type of injuries did they sustain????

Kev got a hole in his finger, but other than that, nothing on the push. I think they're talking about in past efforts, including Kevin's broken ankle and whatever Tommy did to his ribcage when that haulbag fell

Climbing friend,

Here is the writing of honorary haiku to honor our climbing friend tommy and kevin.

Tommy and Kevin
Oh how do you motivate
for several years

focus lone big wall
you train like straight maniac
rewards big coming

climbing high on wall
razor crimps rip your handies
but you perservere

Actually they did, and I think the whole rant hinges on this statement.

Clueless.

Many injuries were incurred during the 6 years of this project, maybe the news article had it wrong.

Tommy drops haul bag, breaks ribs 2 yrs ago.

Kevin fell on dyno and damaged ligaments in his ankle

I know there were other injuries just not off the top of my head.

Of note, they never asked for the media onslaught they received, however welcome it was. They were transparent about the "style" from day one.

I wonder how many of the detractors have spent....say 1 week on a EC route? Hmmm that's what I thought, almost nil.

Now we have this guy talking about "Sport climbing" in reference to the 20 something pitches, 7 of which are the among the hardest in the park/ world of granite climbing.

Right.

Aleks Zebastian wrote:climbing high on wall razor crimps rip your handies but you perservere

Climbing Friend Aleks,

Your words beautiful
train hard brain muscles me
need many cheesesteaks

Dumb point....but very well written. Kudos

USBRIT wrote: Sorry climbed so much in the US on trad will have to find out what a head point is .. or any other point for that matter!Its all getting way too complicated for us old chaps....I guess they are all different ways of cheating?

Finally! Someone gets it! Jorgeson and Caldwell are just out there, cheating their way up El Cap. Friggin' posers. Much better that we all just keep climbing chossy mud towers and then spraying about how our style is the only ethical style out there.

Bonus points for mentioning that we're so busy climbing in our super badass, pure style that we can't keep track of all the newfangled ways the youngsters are ruining the sport these days.

Austin Baird wrote: Finally! Someone gets it! Jorgeson and Caldwell are just out there, cheating their way up El Cap. Friggin' posers. Much better that we all just keep climbing chossy mud towers and then spraying about how our style is the only ethical style out there. Bonus points for mentioning that we're so busy climbing in our super badass, pure style that we can't keep track of all the newfangled ways the youngsters are ruining the sport these days.

LOL...Calling Castleton and Texas chossy mud towers.. very naughty boy.

Just an honest question- Did you have the same feelings about it when Lynn Hill freed The Nose?

Chris Kalman wrote:So, interesting thought at the link below about the Dawn Wall. What do people out in MP land think about this? What Nobody is Saying About the Dawn Wall - Fringe's Folly

Here is what the Brits are saying …

thedailymash.co.uk/news/int…

Not ground up FA but there have been a few flash ascents of 9a (9a == 14d):

dmmclimbing.com/news/2013/0…

ukclimbing.com/news/item.ph…

Stone Nude wrote: You have a point, amigo, and the last thing I want to do is detract from what got accomplished. As far as I know, 14d hasn't been done ground up ANYWHERE, and it may be years before that happens.

Adam Ondra has already done it:

novebi.ning.com/profiles/bl…

At the risk of inducing a total shitstorm of trolling and righteous fury, what exactly does ground-up mean when it is so far decoupled from the possibility of an onsight? Does it matter if a route was bolted on lead if the send was not until several years later? And yes, I know supermen like Ondra and Megos can and do onsight 14d, but they sure as hell don't onsight 14d FAs.

If someone comes along next year and gets the second ascent of the Dawn Wall ground up I fail to see how that achievement is remotely comparable to that of Caldwell and Jorgeson. How would that be in "better style"?- it would be completely different because they would not be establishing the route.

The problem with the Dawn Wall was not that the crux pitches were sport climbs, it's that there was a live feed and we all watched it like the drooling fanboys we are.