looking for a reference.. someone dying due to not being able to reach their prussik backup on rap

"How to rappel" book by Craig Luebben suggests you should make sure your knot cannot go out of reach if you back up rappel with a prussik above the device, and says that "at least one rappeller has perished this way".
While I do not doubt the advice, is there a reference for the story?

If you put the prusik below the device there would be zero chance of that happening. I would think it would be tough to lose the prusik even if placed above the device unless it was incredibly long and even then it would probably lock if it went out of reach.

I dont have a reference for you. But remember if you place a backup below the rap device, not to make it long enough for the rap device to push it. That would defeat the purpose.

Dang. Now im gona have to experiment with escape mechanisms off the cottonwood out back.

I read an account of this very recently. It may have been in the book "On the Ridge between Life and Death", or it may also have been in a random case history that I came across around the same time.

I believe the situation was a teen taken out climbing by either a guide or a friend who also happened to be a guide. He used a prussik above the rappel device as a back-up and was in just a swami (no leg loops) on a free hanging rappel. So when his prussik got out of reach, he was hanging basically by the diaphragm and couldn't breathe, and very quickly passed out and died.

It must have been horrifying for all involved. Thankfully there are several easy ways to prevent this.

Maybe this one?

web.stanford.edu/~clint/pin…

Horrific accident. Although it's good to know about the leg around the rope and the upside down tricks. I always bring a knife with me. Not too many climbers do, which I think is pretty reckless. A knife should be part of your gear set. Poor kid...
Why would you ever back up your rappel from above it anyway? I use auto block (not always but I should) from my right leg loop to back up my belay device. Below it of course. Works great!

The only thing I can think of is what I learned in industral rescue classes. You only have between if I recall correctly 10 to 20 minutes if a person is in a harness dangling. This is because of the blood pooling in the legs past the leg loops. Now most harness safety systems for OSHA have to have a step up loop that is on the shoulder part of the harness. This allows the victim to at least stand up on one leg at a time so the blood can flow. If blood pools for a long period if time and then gets relased it can put the heart into cardic arrest. This might have been what happened to the rappeller in the story. Couldn't reach device or back up and sat in their harness for awhile then when rescue came tension on legs was relased and pooled blood started to flow causing problems.

I am curious why some put their back up above the device. My reasoning is that if the back up is above the device and you let go then you put all of your weight on the back up, since that is usually a friction hitch it is difficult to un-weight the hitch so that you can continue once stopped. Where as if you put the back up below your belay device (as stated above make sure that it can't reach your device) then when you stop the hitch is simply holding the rope in a position to lock in your belay device. And to start rappelling again you can just push down on the hitch. Yes, putting the back up above the device should not fail generally but I would rather put my weight on my device than on a single prussik (or what ever back up you use) and both would still work in the event of a device failure (which I suspect to be pretty rare).

Sorry to sort of highjack the thread.

This guy I used to climb with went did some slot canyons in Zion. During the last rap out of Heaps down to the Emerald Pool, he wanted a little extra braking security since he was rapping with a heavy pack and all so he tied a kliemhiest with a dyneema runner and attached it above the device. It's ten feet shy of free hanging the entire 300 feet to the pool. He found out too late that his system didn't work, that dyneema slings and klienheist knots don't mix (they tighten but don't release) and now that it had cinched tight he was stuck, free hanging 250' plus of the deck.
the rope is around 8mm, static.
He said as soon as he committed to the rap he knew he was fucked but was too late to stop.
Also he only had one jumar/etrier on his harness and no other slings, except for the dyneema kliemheist.
Long story short, luckily he had a pocket knife and cut the dyneema sling while his buddy on the ground tried desperately to do a fireman brake. He ended up unscathed except for a couple of small bruises and gnarly burns in both hands, burned right through his leather gloves.

What I learned from this was: always add friction when rapping skinny lines, doubling up the carabiner that connects the belay device to the harness is an easy way. AND never tie friction knots out skinny slings.

The dude was in a swami no leg loops. Apparently that's how his climbing partner/mentor was teaching him. The sling got around his chest and he literally suffocated. Bad news. When it comes to harnesses with leg loops I did hear that you can get seriously hurt hanging in them as well because of blood pool. Keeping that in mind the importance of getting an unconscious climber dangling in harness down fast becomes evident.

josh holmes wrote:This guy I used to climb with went did some slot canyons in Zion. During the last rap out of Heaps down to the Emerald Pool, he wanted a little extra braking security since he was rapping with a heavy pack and all so he tied a kliemhiest with a dyneema runner and attached it above the device. It's ten feet shy of free hanging the entire 300 feet to the pool. He found out too late that his system didn't work, that dyneema slings and klienheist knots don't mix (they tighten but don't release) and now that it had cinched tight he was stuck, free hanging 250' plus of the deck. the rope is around 8mm, static. He said as soon as he committed to the rap he knew he was fucked but was too late to stop. Also he only had one jumar/etrier on his harness and no other slings, except for the dyneema kliemheist. Long story short, luckily he had a pocket knife and cut the dyneema sling while his buddy on the ground tried desperately to do a fireman brake. He ended up unscathed except for a couple of small bruises and gnarly burns in both hands, burned right through his leather gloves. What I learned from this was: always add friction when rapping skinny lines, doubling up the carabiner that connects the belay device to the harness is an easy way. AND never tie friction knots out skinny slings.

friction knots with skinny slings work ... i use em all the time when practicing belay escapes ... the issue is in where theyll be constantly rubbing (rappel backup) the constant friction can wear em out and dyneema has a lower melting point

you can release em just fine if you unweight em first ... never assume you can release a friction knot under full body weight

the problem is with ANY friction knot above a sling can easily get stuck .... and if one doesnt know how to unweight it with minimal gear then they are screwed

heres an example with stuck nylon cord ... it has nothing to do with dyneema

youtube.com/watch?v=cYtYLJz…

for more information ...

storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDe…

caves.org/section/vertical/…

unless one needs to do a knot pass or otherwise re-ascend the rope theres no reason to use a prussik above the device

if one does insist on using a friction knot above the device (or for knot passing) then at least tie it with a releasable knot like a mariners or munter mule

being able to unweight the the device and the knot is an absolutely critical skill that every serious climber should be proficient in

as to not having enough gear to escape ... im rather notorious for harping on using a nylon sling for a "PAS" rather than a dedicated "real PAS" ... ive said several times that a 120cm nylon sling "PAS" can be used for self rescue friction hitches and re-ascending the rope ...

if you have one on your harness youll always be able to escape even if you have no other gear ... if you know and are practiced at self rescue with minimal gear