v-scale vs. climbing scale

Jay Knower wrote: JJNS, where did you get this scale? It's different than the one I'm used to seeing. I've always thought it goes like this: V4: 5.12- V5: 5.12 V6: 5.12+ V7: 5.13- V8: 5.13 V9: 5.13+ V10: 5.14- etc...

The comparison appears to be opinionated. I, 6'1 180 to 185pds- depending on dieting and cardio, can crush v0-v7 and v5-v7 1 out of 5 I can onsight/flash. But literally every v8,9,10 i've attempted I either injure my tendon or strain a muscle... I would say 5.13- and 5.13 would be guarded by v8s... I'm thinking a more accurate scale would include the negatives in bouldering problems which are readily available at your more serious bouldering gyms or outdoor areas that are established.

Once you start getting into 5.12- 5.12 5.12+ there should be a difference in the bouldering too.

I will start at 5.11 as being a warm up/flash for anyone reading this.

v5 = 5.11
v6 = 5.11+
v6+ = 5.12-
v7- = 5.12
v7 = 5.12+
v7+ = 5.13-
v8 = 5.13
v8+ = 5.13+

I can't say anything beyond 5.13s or v8+, I simply can't handle it on the hands.

i think willS list is correct.

slim wrote:i think willS list is correct.

+1

The ONLY way the afore-posted comparison charts are useful, is if you intend to climb a V-grade route for 60-100 ft (!) The rating scores the HARDEST move on the climb. A 20 ft boulder route with a V5 crux is NOT the same thing as a 100 ft trad route that is graded 5.11d (!!)

....think about it

I THINK THERE IS A NOTHER DIFFERENFCE HERE NO ONE HAS MENTIONED YET,
bouldering problems have a set pattern, and marked holds you can generally see and vizualize the moves for from the ground,. you can also work the moves one at a time, often without having to reclimb the entire route..
on a lot of upper level climbs this isnt possible, and the holds are more difficult to find, and read the way the route goes (especially when considering different climbers varying skillsets.

No one mentioned that because climbs are graded on the easiest way up with good beta, not how hard they are to work.

http://www.australianbouldering.com/table.html

goingUp wrote:I THINK THERE IS A NOTHER DIFFERENFCE HERE NO ONE HAS MENTIONED YET, bouldering problems have a set pattern, and marked holds you can generally see and vizualize the moves for from the ground,. you can also work the moves one at a time, often without having to reclimb the entire route.. on a lot of upper level climbs this isnt possible, and the holds are more difficult to find, and read the way the route goes (especially when considering different climbers varying skillsets.

Guess you never top roped a project or hung and worked moves.

I think that, generally, By going Up is right. I'm also more comfortable bouldering v4-6 than climbing 5.12 since working and re-working the moves, in usual situations, is more convenient. Boulder problems seem more amenable to projecting than do routes.

JJNS wrote:v0=5.10 v1=5.10+ v2=5.11 v3=5.11+ v4=5.12- v5=5.12a/b v6=5.12b/c v7=5.12c/d v8=5.13 v9=5.13a/b v10=5.13b/c v11=5.13c/d v12=5.14a/b v13=5.14b/c v14=5.14c/d v15=5.15 Ask yourself why V4 is simple for you. V4 is super hard and scary for some. Try and approach 5.12 with the same mental confidence you would a V4. You want to go through all you preparations from the ground. Once you have considered all the risk factors and formulated a game plan and visualized yourself sending get on that thing and crush it. All your second guessing should be done before you start climbing. Worst case you fall safely onto your rope and learn something about the route, which you can improve next attempt.

This is pretty accurate I would say because I climb 5.12d and can send v7s pretty easily and 8s can be rough but it depends on the route.

Why is everyone trying to force V vs YDS into a one-to-one correspondence?

In case you haven't read previous posts in this thread:
(reposting from page 4):

I summarized my thoughts in this blog post:

The Landscape: a new look at route grades

There are clearly a lot of limitations as to what one can claim of such a correspondence. I'm not trying to comment on how routes should be graded. I'm trying to show a pattern in how they are graded.

R. Moran wrote: Guess you never top roped a project or hung and worked moves.

I definately have. However, point still is most problems you still have to get to the top of first. get the top rope up. then re-work. Also holds outside are tricky to find the 'direction of' and sequence of. Just because a hold is there and visible doesnt mean its good, usefull or in the 'proper sequence'.
Naturally this makes them harder to figure out and send, let alone onsight.
Boulder problems are typically the holds you need, thats it (not always).
The other issue I have with sport/trad routes that are within my ability to perform the moves (I could boulder) is having to hold an tricky stance while clipping/placing pro. I could go past the move, but to hold it, the stamina required to place pro and fiddle with a rope/gear is not always there (at and near my limit).

Time to bring up a old thread, I quite frankly am very confused by everyone's response i have climbed as hard as 7c+ and flashed 7B+ (le french) though i struggle up V5 and have never even touched v6, i'm not even a weak climber i am all most at one arm pull ups, hanging off two fingers is doable my pinch strength is fine and my core is the best part about me, yet i cant touch V6. Not sure exactly what to make of the anomaly that is me but i think it's fair to say that there must be somthing more to the grading.

7B+ is around V8. If you "have never even touched V6" then it's no wonder you haven't sent one. Try more V6's! If you've flashed 7B+, it seems weird that V5's would be difficult (barring the odd one that isn't in your style), but it's not un-heard of.

For example I believe that the length of the route is what make a difference, short v8 = possible with power and endurance+ technical approach. Long V8 much more endurance need, more technical approach, and of course a mental block that is alwayse behind the eight limit, short buolders compare with long routes of the same grade are 2 different planet, my 2 cents opinion.

Rajiv Ayyangar wrote:7B+ is around V8. If you "have never even touched V6" then it's no wonder you haven't sent one. Try more V6's! If you've flashed 7B+, it seems weird that V5's would be difficult (barring the odd one that isn't in your style), but it's not un-heard of.

i have never touched V6 because i cant even leave the floor, maybe it's just my area but i'm doubtful.

Rajiv Ayyangar wrote:7B+ is around V8. If you "have never even touched V6" then it's no wonder you haven't sent one. Try more V6's! If you've flashed 7B+, it seems weird that V5's would be difficult (barring the odd one that isn't in your style), but it's not un-heard of.

Thanks for that blog post. It is probably the best analysis of grading I've ever read.

You mention how grades are pretty consistent, but I wonder how much consistency correlates to accuracy. Accuracy in this sense is determined by what we want glades to do for us and what we want them to reflect. In other words, there is no reality to the symbol V10 aside from its social significance to climbers. I'm not making any claims as to what that social significance is or should be but it seems like something worth reflecting on.

Something about grading that I think confounds the issue of accuracy is the fact that most routes are graded by adult men. Imagine if we had a group of teenage boys, or girls, or adult women, or adult men over 6'3' etc etc' and had them grade all of the routes at the Red or Rumney (without knowing the guidebook grades). How do you think the grades would compare to the guidebook grades given the different groupings?

ascender30 wrote:The ONLY way the afore-posted comparison charts are useful, is if you intend to climb a V-grade route for 60-100 ft (!) The rating scores the HARDEST move on the climb. A 20 ft boulder route with a V5 crux is NOT the same thing as a 100 ft trad route that is graded 5.11d (!!) ....think about it

Endurance of multi hard moves is something you have to consider but if the hardest move you can do is a 5.12 / V5ish level move than you should have no problem doing a 5.12a 100ft route with a single 5.12a move and tons of 5.7 above / below it. At the same time there is V5 level problems that have a single V5 move at the start and another 10-15ft of V0 moves.

Lets face it there is no good rating system for climbing that takes all there is about climbing into the scale. I can walk up 5.12 route in some styles and 5.10 in other styles of climbing can shut me down... The grades are there to help you decide what to climb but it isn't a magic number that says I can climb 5.12 so anything under 5.12 I can climb easy.