Petzl ASAP or Petzl ASAP Lock for TR solo

Like the title says, has anyone used either of these devices yet for TR soloing? Theoretically it could let you downclimb a bit without the device locking up...an obvious advantage over traditional compound pulleys. Anyone tried it yet?

http://vimeo.com/m/78184638

Thanks for sharing Aaron.
These devices will change the game of rope soloing altogether.
The ability to safely downclimb the entire route is awesome!
Gimme gimme gimme that thing...

RAD! thanks for posting... christmas is right around the corner ;-)

EDIT: HOLY CRAP $215???????

I may have to get this. that is one problem with my 'Soloist' is that I can not down climb without extra effort of paying out rope, and it looks like rope drag will be eliminated. Isn't this the same concept that the 'Silent Parner' uses.(internal braking) So far on Petzl's page there is no KN rating that I found and it does have a hefty price tag.

Looks like it won't be out until 2014, so chances are slim you'll get much feedback until then.

petzl.com/us/pro/mobile-fal…

They look awesome for the purpose. This could be perfect for working through out cruxes.

I thought I'd read they were only releasing it for thick industrial access ropes, which I hope isn't the case. Although if it works like it looks like it does, it may be rated for certain diameters (for legal reasons), but work on standard climbing rope.

I wonder if a non-toothed version is possible, sort of a GriGri/ASAP mix.

Pat

Aric Datesman wrote:Looks like it won't be out until 2014, so chances are slim you'll get much feedback until then. petzl.com/us/pro/mobile-fal…

You guys are a bit behind, its been out for 6 or 7 years at least. There are reviews back to 2006 in Europe.
The limited allowed ropes are a problem for many users even in the industrial climbing scene. Never seen one used in climbing or even discussed.
The IRATA drop tests don´t exactly encourage me even though I wouldn´t be using a lanyard! bara.dk/download/100kgAbsei…

Specs for the "old" version of this are at

link

Looks like its certified for 10mm ropes (semi static) so it may work for our purposes, though I'll let someone else guinea pig it.

did I hear an oink oink??

Huh. I wonder why they list it as not coming out until 2014 if it's been available for years? Weird.

Anyway, seems Mark Hudon over on ST has used one for running laps at the gym.

(Scroll down a bit for the post)
supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;tn=80

I kind of suspect it will work on a smaller ropes. Unless there are physical stops inside it, it looks like it works with a similar swing arm to the Mini Trax. Rope access requirements have far higher safety factors (5:1+) than climbing (1:1+ and a little prayer). This likely factors into the rope diameters they select.

It's a really cool idea, but a lot of cash just to see if it's better than my existing gear.

Patrick

Aric Datesman wrote:Huh. I wonder why they list it as not coming out until 2014 if it's been available for years? Weird.

There´s an old model (or current if you prefer) and a new model which has the plastic protector removed, bits cut off the body to make it lighter and the tow-line holes removed. The working bits appear to be identical.
The teeth on the wheel are terrifying if you asked me, for running laps probably not really an issue but working a sequence for an hour or two flapping around like a dying fish they probably would be!

The ASAP has been out for awhile. Petal is just refreshing the design for Jan 2014. I have used the ASAP multiple times and it works great for what it is designed for—commercial rope access. The ASAP is not designed for nor recommended for TR solo or any type of recreational use. It is designed to be used with a shock absorbing lanyard on static rope in a commercial rope access scenario. It's most common application for the ASAP is as a backup on a rope worker's secondary, or safety, line. As far as whether it would work for TR solo, possibly, but if you fell at the top of the climb with little rope between you and the anchor, you could potentially cut the rope as the ASAP is a toothed caming device (like an ascender).

Glad someone here has experience with it. Is there something that makes it significantly more appropriate for industrial ascension than rock climbing? From a high level I'm a little unswayed by their criteria as that's pretty much what Petzl would say about the Mini-Trax as well. Obviouslyit's been a huge hit in the TR solo world.

Intriguing that they recommend essentially a Screamer in between the harness and device. Might be interesting to combine one with a Mini-Trax and an elastic chest harness for a little higher margin of safety.

Pat

PatCleary wrote:Glad someone here has experience with it. Is there something that makes it significantly more appropriate for industrial ascension than rock climbing? From a high level I'm a little unswayed by their criteria as that's pretty much what Petzl would say about the Mini-Trax as well. Obviouslyit's been a huge hit in the TR solo world. Intriguing that they recommend essentially a Screamer in between the harness and device. Might be interesting to combine one with a Mini-Trax and an elastic chest harness for a little higher margin of safety. Pat

In the rope access world, technicians almost always use two ropes for redundancy. The main line, called the working line, is used for ascending and rappelling, and the backup, called the safety line, is used if the mainline fails. Prior to the ASAP, most technicians used the Petzl Shunt for their backup device. The Petzl Shunt is basically a non-toothed ascender, so it only slid in one direction without user intervention. This doesent work so well for technicians that need to rappell.

Then there was the ASAP. The ASAP uses a toothed wheel that can spin in either direction. With the ASAP, technicians can go up or down without touching the device, which is exactly its main selling point and primary design purpose. The ASAP is mostly used as a secondary backup (although it is used as a primary in single rope systems). So for most technicians, the ASAP is like a screamer. You place it, but you nearly never actually fall on it.

The reason why the lanyard is required is because technicians use static rope for rope access work. When a technician is ascending a fixed line, the ASAP is going to be below him, which means if the mainline fails, he is going to take an FF2 on his sling. FF2 + static rope + toothed cam + no energy absorbing lanyard = I am sure you know. That is why the lanyard is needed.

This video shows how the device is designed to hold a fall in combination with an energy-absorbing lanyard:

youtube.com/watch?v=7zM4I7n…

PatCleary wrote:From a high level I'm a little unswayed by their criteria as that's pretty much what Petzl would say about the Mini-Trax as well. Obviouslyit's been a huge hit in the TR solo world.

I dunno about that, as Petzl explicitly states the Mini Trax is approved for use as self belay on dynamic ropes in recreational climbing. They posted a warning about it a while back that changed some of the instructions, but it's still an approved use. supertopo.com/climbing/thre…;tn=80

Hmm, interesting it is now an approved use. Pretty sure it was unmentioned when I bought mine.

20KN: That pretty much jives with my highly limited understanding of rope access stuff. I'm curious why you don't think they're appropriate for climbing with. Because of the FF2 issue? Because you stand a chance of very slowly sliding down the rope?

Pat

PatCleary wrote:Hmm, interesting it is now an approved use. Pretty sure it was unmentioned when I bought mine.

FWIW, I think I bought mine ~2005 and recall it being approved for self belay back then (which is why I bought it). Might even still have the paperwork, so will take a look later today to check.

PatCleary wrote:Hmm, interesting it is now an approved use. Pretty sure it was unmentioned when I bought mine. 20KN: That pretty much jives with my highly limited understanding of rope access stuff. I'm curious why you don't think they're appropriate for climbing with. Because of the FF2 issue? Because you stand a chance of very slowly sliding down the rope? Pat

I dident say it wouldent work. I said it is not designed for TR solo. I said it could possibly work. I would use a backup though as it is a toothed caming device, and those teeth are really sharp. But for $200 it makes more sense to me to get a Silent Partner, which can do everything the ASAP can do, but it is designed for TR and lead solo.

Consensus over on ST is that the Silent Partner sucks for TR.

Edit- if you don't want the teeth, an Ushba Basic works quite well for TR solo. Kong duck does not (I've used both). My preference is for the minitrax. Edit x2: also used/have a Microscender. Works ok, but not as well as the Ushba or minitrax.

Speaking of which, I found the paperwork that came with my minitrax. I don't see a date on it, but it is marked P07600-F (271204). A bit hard to read in the pic, so here's the pertinent text:

"Diagram 4. Self-belaying and occasional rope climbing. The MINI TRAXION can be used as a rope clamp / grab in all rope-climbing situations"