Back Injury

To sycamore:
No, I am not from the Boulder area. The accident occurred at an east-coast gym, although I do not wish to say which one, because of possible legal ramifications.

Don't sue. You went climbing and got hurt. That sucks, but that's the consequence you accept when you leave the ground.

climbinbob wrote:We have both been climbing together a long time, so the idea that he didn't arrest my fall is beyond belief!

Dude, reality check. I can't f'ing believe you're even entertaining the idea of suing your partner. WTF?

That said, I do wish you a full recovery and am sorry to hear this happened.

Jason Kim wrote: Dude, reality check. I can't f'ing believe you're even entertaining the idea of suing your partner. WTF? That said, I do wish you a full recovery and am sorry to hear this happened.

I think the friendship and climbing-partnership is over. But if you've been climbing with this guy for a long time, you must know his belaying abilities? Even though his "I don't know what happened" excuse is lame, and I wouldn't want to climb with him again - don't sue. (take the half he offered, then don't climb with him again)

Edit: Was this the first fall of yours he ever caught?

I'm sorry to hear about the accident. If you remember the accident, do you mind providing some more info on it? 4 bolts clipped in a gym and missing the 5th, and having a groundfall seems like a lot of slack. A whole lot of slack. Was he belaying with an ATC and maybe wasn't paying attention, and didn't break? You said you were on a traverse, did you pendelum at all on the 4th bolt, or straight down to the ground?

I know it doesn't change the unfortunate outcome, just wondering.

To your question, I'd be happy with the fact he offered to pay 1/2. I wouldn't sue.

dude offered to pay HALF your medical bills and you want more? maybe you did lose your spine...

Climinbob, Your insurance company may make the decision whether to sue for you. Any time my husband or I have injured ourselves, we've gotten a letter from our health insurance company's subrogation department wanting to know if there was an accident and, basically, if there was someone else to blame whom the insurance company could sue. If you fill out the form as you describe here, it will be interesting to see what your insurer does.

wendy weiss wrote:Climinbob, Your insurance company may make the decision whether to sue for you. Any time my husband or I have injured ourselves, we've gotten a letter from our health insurance company's subrogation department wanting to know if there was an accident and, basically, if there was someone else to blame whom the insurance company could sue. If you fill out the form as you describe here, it will be interesting to see what your insurer does.

Insurance companies use this documentation to deny claims, but not to 'sue people for you'.

Actually, Jon, they use the information to sue people for themselves, to get reimbursed by the third party or the third party's insurer. That's what subrogation is all about.

Just curious about what others might think.
I might climb with Bob's partner at this point but I'd never climb with Bob.

The Cowardly Noob wrote: You are correct, this isn't reliable legal advice. Personal Injury lawyers usually don't take $$$ up front, they take 33-50% of the winnings. If you lose, PI lawyers usually don't get paid. If he lawyers up and goes through all this BS, the claim is going to be for more than 3K. There will be damages asserted including pain and suffering, lose of enjoyment, other BS.

PI lawyers usually don't take a case this small. Low odds of winning and a small payoff, as he's suing an individual (unless Bob's ex-partner is rich).

His best bet is to take the offer of half (which seems a decent thing to do), and spend $100 of it on a grigri for his next partner. Or, at least, he should inform future belaying partners that he will consider suing them if they make a mistake.

wendy weiss wrote:Actually, Jon, they use the information to sue people for themselves, to get reimbursed by the third party or the third party's insurer. That's what subrogation is all about.

I'm no lawyer, but its my understanding that subrogation means that an insurance company has a right to reimburse it's costs if one of it's insured wins a personal injury case. That's why everyone is commenting that if a lawsuit were filed, it wouldn't be for the $3000 deductible but for the entire cost of medical care (maybe approaching half a million?) because the insurance company is going to be paid first. I don't, however, think that the insurance company will sue a 3rd party on your behalf. They may prompt the injured party to sue by denying claims. Like I said, I'm no lawyer and have no intention of ever becoming one.

To everyone that has responded in one way or another. I am not a greedy man, nor do I want to sue anyone, or put anyone in the poor house. I just think that the bulk of responsibility falls on the shoulders' of the belayer. To drop someone 30' to the ground is a gross negligence of duty. It is the belayers responsibility to do every thing in his power to arrest a fall. When a climber is leading, he is focusing on his movements, and should not have to 2nd guess his belayer-especially having climbed numerous times as a team in the past. I've said my peace. Let's let this thread die. Thank you!

Sorry Bob, it's very obvious your agro with your belayer and feel he should pony up some funds. As you know, climbing is dangerous. How many times have you had a lousy spotter while bouldering? Ever pull a piece while trad climbing? Things happen, people get hurt. Learn how to fall.

Best of luck and hope you recover fully.

Best wishes for your recovery.

I agree with the earlier posts saying your partner is being generous if he is offering to pay 1/2. IMO, he should not have to pay anything. You are responsible for choosing him as your belayer.

You will be much better off if you channel your anger into getting well instead of starting a legal fight that will certainly be lengthy and expensive.

Falling is an inherent risk of climbing. The law of gravity has not been repealed. If your belayer has offered to pay half of your expenses, that's probably as good as or better than you could do by litigating.

DSnider wrote:Learn how to fall.

If I were bob, I would track you down and poop on your lawn.

If its a 40 ft route and you fell 30 feet you should have realized there was too much slack and asked to take? That's what I would of done, also you made the decision to allow this person to belay you, as far as I am concerned that's on you. This is a dangerous thing we do as we all know, whether human error or equipment failure its always on you, you choose to climb and you choose who you climb with.

climbinbob wrote:...the bulk of responsibility falls on the shoulders' of the belayer. To drop someone 30' to the ground is a gross negligence of duty. It is the belayers responsibility to do every thing in his power to arrest a fall. When a climber is leading, he is focusing on his movements, and should not have to 2nd guess his belayer..

Obviously someone that understands what it means to be a belayer and not just someone who pays out rope.

Who the fuck is Pete Schoening and why is he turning in his grave?

Godspeed in your healing Bob.

I very rarely post anything on MP and really like just reading what you all have to say but I can't hold back on this one. First off I hope you heal up well and am glad the outcome is not worse. But really? Sue your partner of a long time? That certainly is not the answer. Good luck finding a partner in the future.