Trad shoes..

So I just wanted to make sure that basically no one uses 5.10 moccasym for trad climbing...I have been climbing close to 20yrs and have yet to really meet anyone that swears by them for trad. Just wanted to double check. In my opinion they 'were' good shoes when they first came out but have just fallen to the wayside with newer/better designs.

Tell me again how the shoes know what kind of pro you're clipping?

Pat, I love my 5.10 moccasyms for easy trad and sport climbs. Mainly because they are very comfortable. However for anything harder than 5.9, I wear stiffer shoes.

WillF, thanks man just wanted to confirm this..

I'll bite Mr. Troll.

I've done multiple 5.12 routes placing gear in my Moccasyms. I've got at least three pairs.

They are great for "thin" cracks and the rubber is super sticky. I think they are best for .5 to #1 camalot sized cracks.

Moccs (and supermoccs) are great for trad, and not just easy stuff. I have had at least 4 pairs of moccs & 3 pairs of supermoccs. Nothing works better for thin cracks IMHO, especially in the desert. Try climbing a finger crack in some big, beefy trad shoes like tradmasters or granstones sometime. Moccs & Supermoccs are my go-to shoes for most trad 5.10 & up.

Are you thinking of getting into trad Pat?

Thanks for your comment Luke, not sure why I am a troll but ok. :)

Mike not thinking of I have been into it for a little while now. On and off but I prefer sport.I like testing my psychical ability not worrying about protection :) just my preference.

I have redpointed my hardest trad routes in moccs.

Go to the creek on any given day, there will be guys and gals sending hard in moccs everywhere.

I have red pointed my hardest trad routes in...Scarpa Mago. Trad != pure jamming, which is what the moccs are good at. Even at the creek (which is more sport climbing with cams), I don't always use jamming shoes for thin cracks.

Pmac, I may be mistaken, but I thought RJ was recently talking about using Moccs for cracks. Ask him what he thinks.

I'm with Luke. My go-to for rattlers to tight reds are always a well broken-in, just shy of needing a resole, pair of Mocs.

Smaller than that, not getting anything in anyway, so I want a face shoe. Bigger than that and it hardly matters for the jamming, so I want a stiffer shoe to make use of any tiny edges or to heel-toe wide stuff.

I climb probably 75% trad, this is the quiver, only the Rogues and Quantums have never been up gear routes:

I think there is a huge misconception when it comes to shoes. People equate certain disciplines of climbing (sport, trad...) with a certain type of shoe. The angle and type of rock often dictates what shoe would work best, regardless of whether you are falling on bolts or cams.

Tyrel Fuller wrote:I think there is a huge misconception when it comes to shoes. People equate certain disciplines of climbing (sport, trad...) with a certain type of shoe. The angle and type of rock often dictates what shoe would work best, regardless of whether you are falling on bolts or cams.

+1

For pure jamming, you want a soft shoe and your toe to lay flat. For edging, you want something that edges. For overhanging, you want a downturned toe.

If it's not bolted, you'll want a rack.

If it's bolted, you'll want quickdraws.

I guess this is going to be a positive thread, so I'll contribute some more.

As people have alluded to above "trad climbing" does not give enough information to determine what type of shoe is best.

It is more important to know what your doing with your feet. Slab? Crack? Roof at the Gunks? All could be "trad"

As Reboot said above most people who climb "harder" routes that are protected with trad gear, don't do much jamming. A good example is this video of Mayan using the blackwing, hardly a "trad" shoe, on the Salathe Headwall.

vimeo.com/31878065

An extreme example for sure.

So for jamming, when you need to get the most rubber possible in a thin crack soft slipper like shoes are good.

For wider things it helps to have stiff shoes to take the stress off your feet. When going up to fists and O/W ankle protection is nice, which is why the TC Pro is so popular in places like Yosemite.

Pat where do you trad climb?

Tyrel Fuller wrote:I think there is a huge misconception when it comes to shoes. People equate certain disciplines of climbing (sport, trad...) with a certain type of shoe. The angle and type of rock often dictates what shoe would work best, regardless of whether you are falling on bolts or cams.

While this is generally true, I happen to know the OP, and my trad shoe recommendation (moccs & supermoccs) was area & grade specific. Pat generally climbs in the Southwest, and most often in AZ, which may be why he posted it in the AZ section. Also, Pat is a strong sport climber, but has less experience in trad, so I suspect he will bump the grades down a tiny bit, so I figured most of his trad climbing would be in the 5.9 thru mid 5.12 range. In AZ & the Southwest, most 5.9 thru 5.12 trad is jamming cracks. Thus, a jamming shoe is often best.

There are exceptions of course, such as some harder cracks at Mt. Lemmon & some of the harder lines at The Waterfall. But for those lines he would probably want to wear the tight sport shoes he probably already has several pairs of. For easy cracks, I suspect his approach shoes will be adequate.

If for example the OP lived in NYC, I would not recommend moccs.

Luke Stefurak wrote: "All could be "trad" As Reboot said above most people who climb "harder" routes that are protected with trad gear, don't do much jamming. A good example is this video of Mayan using the blackwing, hardly a "trad" shoe, on the Salathe Headwall. vimeo.com/31878065 An extreme example for sure. "

I was at a slideshow and Mayan said she really didn't like wearing blackwings for the headwall, but needed them to stand on some bad footholds at the upper crux.

My point is...

The only thing that makes a shoe 'trad,' is whether you are clipping bolts or plugging cams while wearing 'em.

In the eternal words of John Long: It ain't the shoes.

Pat Mac wrote:Mike not thinking of I have been into it for a little while now. On and off but I prefer sport.I like testing my psychical ability not worrying about protection :) just my preference.

It's funny but I am pretty sure that psychical means exactly the opposite of what you intended...unless you really are that cleaver, which is possible I suppose.

I wear Moccasyms exclusively in my street shoe size. I acknowledge that they are not the best shoes for edging, but it is what I'm most comfortable with. I climb plenty of sport, but primarily climb gear routes when travelling.

I've onsighted 5.12 'trad' in Mocs (crack and thin face). Shoes have never been a limiting factor in my failure to send.