Best locations for Grad school and Climbing

TWK wrote: then you'll learn the difference between a contraction and the possessive form of a pronoun.

Touche.

Mike,
I agree with camhead and Ryan on this, but let me add just a bit more. I'm a professor at Ohio State, so I think I have some different experiences on the grad school route: it really, really depends on your field and your goals. But in general, where you go to grad school matters much, much more than where you go to undergrad. When I advise my students about grad school, the first piece of advice is go to the best school you can get in to. The only reason to deviate from that strategy might be to go to the best grad school that offers you an assistantship. For clarification, I have a PhD in Economics and teach in the Ag Econ department, so most of my students are thinking of grad degrees in Econ, Ag Econ, or similar fields.

As noted above, there are some fields in which proximity matters more. If you are considering law school, well, first check out what the job market for JDs looks like right now. If you are still interested, then choosing a location and then the school makes more sense, as the state-level knowledge and networks in law are very important.

Finally, if you are thinking about grad school to avoid reality for a bit longer, I think that Ryan's advice is excellent. Just live rent-free for a year and read a lot, and learn about what's out there. Then make a conscious choice to attend grad school.

HTH,
matt.

Who ever would have thought that the best two answers to any thread would come from guys living in Columbus! ;-)

Sorry - I grew up watching my coastline be developed so that rich people from Ohio could have vacation homes. I'm sort of required to joke you guys whenever I can! :)

Ryan Williams wrote: Touche. Mike, I agree with camhead and Ryan on this, but let me add just a bit more. I'm a professor at Ohio State, so I think I have some different experiences on the grad school route: it really, really depends on your field and your goals. But in general, where you go to grad school matters much, much more than where you go to undergrad. When I advise my students about grad school, the first piece of advice is go to the best school you can get in to. The only reason to deviate from that strategy might be to go to the best grad school that offers you an assistantship. For clarification, I have a PhD in Economics and teach in the Ag Econ department, so most of my students are thinking of grad degrees in Econ, Ag Econ, or similar fields. As noted above, there are some fields in which proximity matters more. If you are considering law school, well, first check out what the job market for JDs looks like right now. If you are still interested, then choosing a location and then the school makes more sense, as the state-level knowledge and networks in law are very important. Finally, if you are thinking about grad school to avoid reality for a bit longer, I think that Ryan's advice is excellent. Just live rent-free for a year and read a lot, and learn about what's out there. Then make a conscious choice to attend grad school. HTH, matt. Who ever would have thought that the best two answers to any thread would come from guys living in Columbus! ;-) Sorry - I grew up watching my coastline be developed so that rich people from Ohio could have vacation homes. I'm sort of required to joke you guys whenever I can! :)

Yeah, Ohioans out here are like Coloradans at the Creek. We're an infesting scourge.

20 kN wrote: What is with you and UOPX? Did you have a bad experience there or something?

This is the first time that I've made fun of University of Phoenix on this site. However, I believe that there have been other threads in which I made fun of you, and other people made fun of UoPX, so I can see how you may have lumped us all together and gotten confused.

Read this for more information, and click all of the links. Seriously.

cracked.com/article_18660_w…

First off let me say I'm a 4th year graduate student in Organic Chemistry at The University of Utah in SLC, traditionally our program is ranked in the top 20 to 30 for Chemistry Graduate Programs and we publish and produce on par with other top tier schools.

Professor Roberts makes a great point and I do agree with him on most accounts but I will say this. As a graduate student my work schedule consists of 7:50 to about 6:30 Monday through Friday and I try to come in around 6 a.m. on Saturday and work to 11 or noon. That goes without saying that the chemistry program particularly organic, requires a very rigorous work load and is very time consuming (sure there are times where I just have to be here and read mtn project because I'm checking up on experiments).

My point is with that high of a work load and stress, and it is stressful (publishing, getting data, and graduate school assignments orals, etc) you need an outlet. I've found the Wasatch mtns are great for that. I've seen too many graduate students take up drinking, get divorced, or just become fat and unhappy because they have no outlet (even here!!). So yes pick something that allows you to climb, ski, and run but will also benefit your professional career a "little more" than the University of Phoenix.

Graduate school is a very difficult and fun time of your life and you should pick a school both based on academic accounts and how it fits your lifestyle but don't favor one over the other. Ohio State in particular would be a horrible place to go to school...haha sorry Matt I did my undergrad at Penn State.

Just my 2cents
Travis

The biggest issue with this thread thus far is the lack of specificity. The OP has not stated what field or what level of degree he seeks, and thus the advice is hopelessly general. He really needs to provide a bit more information about his goals/plans. One big distinction is whether you are going to school for some sort of professional degree (engineering, law, various types of medical field, architecture, nursing, etc..) or for full-bore academia (PhD, research, and eventually a professorship).

The advice from the Ohioans, while excellent, is specific to the latter track (PhD, academia). Being academics themselves, they are probably guilty of having a somewhat narrow view of what graduate education and the workforce entails. In this case, you are trying to break in to one of the toughest job markets in the country, and you really do need every advantage you can get. The aspiring academic does need to go to the best research university possible. Academic fields and job markets tend to operate at the national (or international) level, so in order to compete for positions (and grants), you need a degree of national repute.

Things are a lot different if you are on the Masters/Professional track. Lets say that you are getting an engineering Masters, and then will be looking for a job in industry. These job markets are more local/regional in nature, and it is much easier to get a job in the area around where you did your degree, due to the local reputation and local connections associated with your school. In this case, you should absolutely go to a school that is in a region that you would like to continue to live in, since you will probaby end up staying there after graduation. If you go to grad school in Texas, most of your network connections will be in Texas (as will your friends, your girlfirend, etc), and you will likely continue to live in Texas...bummer. Much better to get that Masters in Colorado, so that it is easy to stay there long term.

Quote:

First off let me say I'm a 4th year graduate student in Organic Chemistry at The University of Utah in SLC, traditionally our program is ranked in the top 20 to 30 for Chemistry Graduate Programs and we publish and produce on par with other top tier schools.

My point is with that high of a work load and stress, and it is stressful (publishing, getting data, and graduate school assignments orals, etc) you need an outlet. I've found the Wasatch mtns are great for that.

Two excellent points are alluded to here, which deserve a bit more description. They are as follows:

1. You don't have to move somewhere unpleasant to find a good program. A big part of this depends on your field; there is a luck component here. If all of the good programs in you field are in Ohio and Michigan, you may have to suck it up and move to the Midwest. If you are lucky, however, it may turn out that the best program for what you want to do is actually in a great place. This is especially true in natural resource fields. In the field that I am in grad school for now (groundwater hydrology), the best 3 programs in the country are in Reno, Tucson, and Golden--all good places for the outdoors-interested. As such, you may not have to choose between a good program and a place that you want to live; you may find both in one place.

2. Being in a place you like will help you succeed as a grad student. Grad school is hard, and a lot of work. You can't work all of the time, although some people try. In reality, a balanced lifestyle makes you more efficient and productive; I can accomplish more in a 40-hour week than in a 70-hour week, due to declining efficency if my hours are too long. Most people who work super-long hours don't realize this; they could actually get more done if they got out of the office on occasion to clear their minds. As such, having good recreation (climbing) options nearby can actually enhance your productivity, and also make you not hate life while in grad school. Proximity is key. Here in Golden, there is decent climbing very nearby, and it is possible to both get your work done and to go climbing; you don't have to choose between them, because you don't waste four hours each way driving to the crag.

Jon Moen wrote:...If you go to grad school in Texas, most of your network connections will be in Texas (as will you friends, your girlfirend, etc), and you will likely continue to live in Texas...bummer. Much better to get that Masters in Colorado, so that it is easy to stay there long term.

Yeah, good point. As I mentioned earlier, I went to grad school in Texas, to the best program for a pretty narrow field. Unfortunately, I realized that I did not want to live in Texas full-time, and due to both the general competitive job market in academia, combined with the fact that I graduated at the nadir of the past recession, I have not yet found a tenure-track position. The only graduates of my program who have landed tenure-track gigs are those who decided to stay in Texas, within the "good-ol-boys" network.

Ryan Williams wrote: Who ever would have thought that the best two answers to any thread would come from guys living in Columbus! ;-) Sorry - I grew up watching my coastline be developed so that rich people from Ohio could have vacation homes. I'm sort of required to joke you guys whenever I can! :)

Hey, I'm as much a Buckeye as you are a Cockney. I'm originally a Show-Me stater, but the job was in Ohio--though I think my NC State degree does give me honorary NC citizenship, right?

Oh well, back to grading...

Matt Roberts wrote: Hey, I'm as much a Buckeye as you are a Cockney. I'm originally a Show-Me stater, but the job was in Ohio--though I think my NC State degree does give me honorary NC citizenship, right? Oh well, back to grading...

Ha, wasn't expecting that! When were you at State? I graduated in 2007 but took multiple semesters off to live in New Orleans, Colorado, etc. Good times in Raleigh but I can't say I really miss it. There were times when I did, but not now.

I was at the Ohio State - NC State football game in '03 at the Horseshoe when we lost in triple overtime. We bought tickets on eBay and ended up sitting in the visitors section. I remember looking at my buddy and telling him that if we won we were going to have to run as fast as we could or else get slaughtered. That place is WILD!

PS - I've also passed out under the Arch in St Louis and been asked to leave the Jazz Museum in Kansas City. Man, those were the days...

D@n wrote:This may not be an option for you but traveling overseas is easy to do as a student (visas, student aid, etc). My main goals were similar to yours: climb a lot and pick up a Master's degree. I spent 2.5 years in Christchurch, New Zealand and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Tuition was cheap, cost of living was low, and I didn't have to learn another language. The program (botany/ecology) was good and studying biology in NZ was pretty cool. Spend some time traveling, studying, and climbing overseas. When you get back you can live wherever you want.

That's actually not a bad idea. There are a lot of cities all over the world that are great for climbers, and many good schools are less expensive than you'd think. Some places you need to know another language but others, not so much. New Zealand is amazing. I wouldn't have minded ending up there at all. Christchurch is still kind of destroyed at the moment, but the city is in working order and I'm sure they'd welcome international students - maybe even give you a scholarship. The cost of living now would be even lower now and you're a short(ish) flight to some amazing climbing in Aus and Thailand.

If you're even marginally interested in research, especially in anything natural resources related, it is very easy to get research assistantships that will not only pay your tuition fees but also a (very modest) stipend. I'll have earned my PhD by the end of 2014 without having paid a dime for education costs out of pocket. This does involve a substantial amount of time invested in contacting professors whose research interests are similar to yours and then finding professors who have money to pay for a grad student.

With that said, looking for "grad schools" without a specific direction is pointless. Every university offers graduate level work. It's more important to chose what graduate path you want to take and then find the school that fits.

Going to grad school so you can live close to climbing is a waste of money. Just move close to climbing and then figure out what you want to do.

Ryan Williams wrote: Ha, wasn't expecting that! When were you at State? I graduated in 2007 but took multiple semesters off to live in New Orleans, Colorado, etc. Good times in Raleigh but I can't say I really miss it. There were times when I did, but not now. I was at the Ohio State - NC State football game in '03 at the Horseshoe when we lost in triple overtime. We bought tickets on eBay and ended up sitting in the visitors section. I remember looking at my buddy and telling him that if we won we were going to have to run as fast as we could or else get slaughtered. That place is WILD! PS - I've also passed out under the Arch in St Louis and been asked to leave the Jazz Museum in Kansas City. Man, those were the days...

I was at State from 96-01, and I was at the same game, sitting behind the giant flagpole at the North end, and yes, its a pretty wild place, but a fun place to spend one Saturday afternoon in September each year.

Agree that Raleigh was nice, but happier here. Wish that I'd been climbing back then, because there's obviously great climbing in W NC. Now, its packing the fam up for trips to the RRG on weekends that don't have soccer games/homecoming dances/climbing comps.

Take care & enjoy; my wife & I lived in Vienna for 3 years & wanted to end up in London, but got Raleigh instead.

Matt Roberts wrote: Take care & enjoy; my wife & I lived in Vienna for 3 years & wanted to end up in London, but got Raleigh instead.

Ha. My wife and I lived in Raleigh for 5 years and wanted to end up in Vienna, but got London instead.

Take care as well.

... wonder whatever happened to Mike?

It's pretty interesting reading these posts and hearing people compare 'good' places to climb that are within two hours or good for weekends and, in the same phrase, saying Boulder rock sucks. If you apply the criteria of 'good' climbing within 2 hours or good for weekends, the number of different types of climbing areas around Boulder is well over 20. For those who don't know the area, the 'local' rock in Boulder is about 15 'minutes' from the center of town, meaning you can climb for an hour between classes or whatever pretty much any time you want. And that includes 3 distinctly different areas with 1000s of trad and sport routes from 1-8 pitches and more bouldering than you can shake a chalk bag at and with two or three very different types of rock (sandstone & granite). If you extend to 1 hour from town, you're adding something like another 5 distinct areas. When you get to two hours, you're adding another 10 beyond that. When you're talking about a weekend trip... well that's sort of what mountainproject is for isn't it. Basically, even if you don't like Eldo or Boulder Canyon you still can't compare the access to climbing areas in he Boulder/Denver area to too many other locations in the world in terms of nearness, ease and volume. If you can't find something within two hours of Boulder that you like then your assessment of climbing is pretty limited.

Obviously the choice of location for graduate school if you aren't entirely focused on a specific program or you actually have choices is always going to be a trade-off. You may simply need enough of an activity or quality of life to stay sane while focusing on the degree. And I always figured that if I'd gone to school in Boulder I would have failed miserably with all the climbing and skiing options. ;-)

John Keller wrote:It's pretty interesting reading these posts and hearing people compare 'good' places to climb that are within two hours or good for weekends and, in the same phrase, saying Boulder rock sucks. If you apply the criteria of 'good' climbing within 2 hours or good for weekends, the number of different types of climbing areas around Boulder is well over 20. For those who don't know the area, the 'local' rock in Boulder is about 15 'minutes' from the center of town, meaning you can climb for an hour between classes or whatever pretty much any time you want. And that includes 3 distinctly different areas with 1000s of trad and sport routes from 1-8 pitches and more bouldering than you can shake a chalk bag at and with two or three very different types of rock (sandstone & granite). If you extend to 1 hour from town, you're adding something like another 5 distinct areas. When you get to two hours, you're adding another 10 beyond that. When you're talking about a weekend trip... well that's sort of what mountainproject is for isn't it. Basically, even if you don't like Eldo or Boulder Canyon you still can't compare the access to climbing areas in he Boulder/Denver area to too many other locations in the world in terms of nearness, ease and volume. If you can't find something within two hours of Boulder that you like then your assessment of climbing is pretty limited. Obviously the choice of location for graduate school if you aren't entirely focused on a specific program or you actually have choices is always going to be a trade-off. You may simply need enough of an activity or quality of life to stay sane while focusing on the degree. And I always figured that if I'd gone to school in Boulder I would have failed miserably with all the climbing and skiing options. ;-)

Dude I don't know what you're talking about. Boulder sucks and there's no good climbing anywhere around here. Spread the word far and wide!

:-)

Kenan wrote: Boulder sucks and there's no good climbing anywhere around here. :-)

Definitely not world class!

Oh, right. Sorry. Don't know what I was thinking. Let me rephrase... there's no good climbing here!! Everything you've heard is all promotional hype!! Not even worth stopping to check it out!! Nothing to see here... move along, move along. ;-)

John Keller wrote:It's pretty interesting reading these posts and hearing people compare 'good' places to climb that are within two hours or good for weekends and, in the same phrase, saying Boulder rock sucks. If you apply the criteria of 'good' climbing within 2 hours or good for weekends, the number of different types of climbing areas around Boulder is well over 20. For those who don't know the area, the 'local' rock in Boulder is about 15 'minutes' from the center of town, meaning you can climb for an hour between classes or whatever pretty much any time you want. And that includes 3 distinctly different areas with 1000s of trad and sport routes from 1-8 pitches and more bouldering than you can shake a chalk bag at and with two or three very different types of rock (sandstone & granite). If you extend to 1 hour from town, you're adding something like another 5 distinct areas. When you get to two hours, you're adding another 10 beyond that. When you're talking about a weekend trip... well that's sort of what mountainproject is for isn't it. Basically, even if you don't like Eldo or Boulder Canyon you still can't compare the access to climbing areas in he Boulder/Denver area to too many other locations in the world in terms of nearness, ease and volume. If you can't find something within two hours of Boulder that you like then your assessment of climbing is pretty limited.

I think anyone that claims that Boulder is not a great place for a climber to live is either stupid or in denial. Probably top 10 cities in the world based on climbing alone.

But the statements I bolded above - THAT is the reason people hate on Boulder. Pretty much everyone knows how much climbing you have there - that's why so many people move there from out east! We've all been told how awesome it is - over and over - and most of us have gone to check it out at one point in our lives so that we can decide for ourselves.

And there actually are A LOT of cities in the world that have the same kind of access to climbing as Boulder. They just don't happen to be in the US and they aren't full of people who think they live in the center of the universe. Time and time again we hear that "I climb 200 days a year" and "I climb after work" and "I can ride my bike to climbing" and "there is no where else on earth" and so on and so forth. Yes it's great. But there are a lot of great places and sometimes it feels like no one in Boulder can acknowledge that. It just gets old.

PS - Back when climbing was the only thing I cared about I was one of those people in denial. Then, by the time I visited and had the chance to stay, I had realized that there were other things that are more important to me. If climbing was still number one, I'd probably have stayed there for at least a year and then moved to Moab because Moab IS the center of the universe ;-)

Now you guys go enjoy your December sunshine and leave us all alone.

John Keller wrote:Oh, right. Sorry. Don't know what I was thinking. Let me rephrase... there's no good climbing here!! Everything you've heard is all promotional hype!! Not even worth stopping to check it out!! Nothing to see here... move along, move along. ;-)

I've been saying that for years

camhead> This is the first time that I've made fun of University of Phoenix on this site. However, I believe that there have been other threads in which I made fun of you, and other people made fun of UoPX, so I can see how you may have lumped us all together and gotten confused. Read this for more information, and click all of the links. Seriously. cracked.com/article_18660_w…

I have read countless websites such as that one. In some cases it is true, and in other cases it is not as true. I have taken a number of classes at my local UoPX ground campus. I have also taken classes at the best public school in the state - the University of Hawaii. In reality, the material is not that much different, at least not for the classes I took. What was different was the way in which the material was administered. So I cannot comment on for-profit schools as a whole, but the specific UoPX campus I attended was reasonable. I would say some of the professors graded a tad on the easy side and there seemed to be an abundance of lazy idiots in class, but aside from that, I don’t really have any complaints. I suppose UoPX's regional accreditation may stand for something as opposed to ITT Tech, Devry, and all the others' nation accreditation. However, one thing is certainly true, UoPX is not a good value, and you will pay out of the ass for something you could get at a community college for a lot less. Also, I would never recommend someone try to get a degree in something like engineering, RN, or the like from a school like UoPX because those types of degrees are too hands-on. UoPX is best suited for degree paths that can be learned largely via independent study.