The AAC and Access Fund. Kiss or Kill?

Access Fund supporter for 5+ years. Generally give more than the minimum. They have a great mission and whenever they report success I am heartened. They provide tangible benefit to the everyman climber.

Quit supporting the AAC a while back, mainly because I didn't feel like it was nearly as important as AF. Also was annoyed with the "golden piton" and AAC grant politics.

djkyote wrote: Make no mistake, tribes will get whatever they want, whenever they want as the FS continues to lose funding and power.

And that is scary. Every geologic anomaly in the United States was worshipped in some way or another... To me, it should fall under the separation of church and state. Keep in mind, the various tribes also worshipped, trees, grass, bison, rivers, etc... all things that are not being challenged. Rocks are because we are not able to put up a good fight. More money to the AF and AAC means a better fight.

Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote: And that is scary. Every geologic anomaly in the United States was worshipped in some way or another... To me, it should fall under the separation of church and state. Keep in mind, the various tribes also worshipped, trees, grass, bison, rivers, etc... all things that are not being challenged. Rocks are because we are not able to put up a good fight. More money to the AF and AAC means a better fight.

Word up, I agree with everything you say. How can a government sans religion be so influenced by religion? It's sad and depressing.

One interesting thing to note, the SW United States is much more at risk of having climbing areas shut down on "these" grounds for a few reasons:

a. Intact indian tribes with functioning governments living on their ancestoral homeland.

b. A climate perfect for preserving trash, I mean artifacts.

c. A smaller population, a smaller tax base, and less significance in the political arena.

I wonder, is there an information source that shows AF activity in the last ten years? Oftentimes I feel very much like the Guy and I would love to be proved wrong.

20 kN wrote: Its more or less just a bunch of climbers that do their own thing.

Organize and represent your crag proactively, tap into the resources of the Access Fund, or mourn the loss of that crag when another party stakes their claim on it and turns it into model homes, quarry, etc.

Get started here:
Creating an LCO

Help my crag is in Danger!

JLP,
Here's a link to the 2011 Annual Report of the AAC: americanalpineclub.org/p/20…

And the 2010 report: americanalpineclub.org/p/20…

And link to download the 2009 report: americanalpineclub.org/uplo…

And here's their 5-year strategic plan: americanalpineclub.org/p/5-…

Lots more info can be found here: americanalpineclub.org/p/wh…

Hope that helps,
Mal

S.P.L.T. Image wrote:As you may know there are a few prominent climbing advocacy groups in the US. Here is a thread to talk about them. In no particular order here are some things to discuss: -Are you a member of one or both? If so, why? -How can either of the groups do better? -Would you be interested in a joint membership? -What if the AAC library was Netflix style, how much would you pay for that? -Who can name the president of either group? -What are the goals of each group? -Tell us a story, how has the AAC or AF effected your climbing? -Could a climbers advocacy group ever be a powerful lobbyist? -Let 'er rip, why are these groups a waste of money, time, and resources? -Can these groups be feared like the NRA or ATV Assoc? Should they be feared? Should climbers sue for access?

Alot of these questions have not been addressed yet.

It seems the consensus is that the AF is providing the best bang for the buck right now, anyone disagree?

I was climbing today and the topic came up of aggressiveness, I think that each time climbers give a little our adversaries see leverage gaining. Anyone else see that in action? Of course in some cases its best to work with people if they are known on a personal basis and are known to be sympathetic, but if they aren't isn't it best to stand up for exactly everything we want?

JLP,

the insurance works anywhere. as soon as you leave the trailhead.
(if i remember correctly...)

also you will likely never read all of the stories in magazines, or online that you find in the alpine journal. i don't think it is eclipsed, unless you like reading online about the worlds most significant boulder problems of the year!

now onto the grants... i can agree somewhat about your talk of grants. yeah, maybe they go to the 1% but now they have a live you dream grant. there is one for every section (west, northeast, etc. etc.)
these grants can go to any member. it could be for trad, or sport, or whatever. it does not need to be cutting edge. this is membership dollars going back to the community.

hueco rock ranch... what about the camping being built at the new river gorge by the AAC, or the teton climbers ranch? or the many discounts to stay at huts, etc. throughout the world.

as far as the library goes, as a member you can surf online for anything they have (guide books, maps, hardback books, movies, etc.)
they will mail them to you for free, you can keep them for an extended period of time (longer than a normal library book) then just mail 'em back.

other good things include (as an example) the international climbers meet. (space is limited... only real catch) for $440 or so you are picked up, and dropped off at fresno airport. transportation through the valley. climb with host climbers that know the area. three catered meals per day. camping at yellow pines, no camp4 bullshit.
this is a great community event that they offer, which is especially good for people who have never been to yosemite, or it may be the one time only dream trip to the area.

also as a member you get discounts on merchandise from various companies.

so anyway, i am not trying to take away from the AF. i think they are great! i do think you had some limited knowledge on what all the AAC does/offers though.

cheers,
cor

ps: i don't work for them either, just a member & volunteer. :)

I am a member of both and think that they are both great organizations.

One specific point for the AF is the Jeep crew they have rolling around the US building trails. I see those guys everywhere. Out in Indian Creek last year they finished the new trail up to 4x4 Wall. I've been on trail crews before but many are more like gardening than trail building, when compared to this crew. They make some amazing trails that will last a long, long time. Doing something that preserves what we love well into our kids' lives (even grandkids' lives) is a worthy endeavor.

I wonder about the AAC sometimes. Someone already mentioned the 2012 Mega Brochure that they sent out to members showing events, services, grants, etc. That thing must have been very expensive to design and print. Seems like it is all just for awareness (and maybe moreover) and to get new members. Either way, it seemed to me like a waste of resources.

- The grants are great if you like to climb big things in other countries (although I have been rejected on 100% of the requests I have submitted). The lodging is cool if you go to those places (everything else in Jackson is at least 10x more expensive than the ranch) but I wish there were more options.

- The library is sweet, but again, mainly for people that want to go do FAs or adventure climbing, not cragging, which is the majority of people these days (maybe I'm wrong but seems like a safe assumption). And, like someone said, the internet has a lot of that info nowadays.

- The evac insurance alone is worth the membership (economist point of view). And they just increased the amount. Someone said they thought it was cumbersome to get the insurance to pay out. I haven't used it but it just says that you need to contact a certain number ASAP once rescue starts. Doesn't seem too cumbersome to me.

Not that Curry would allow it, but how friggin awesome would it be if there were an AAC climbers ranch in the Valley? A place where climbers could stay without being treated like criminals? WOW! I would pay extra for that! I also like the idea of an online, netflix style version of the AAC library, if current revenue were re-appropriated to build it, or if the additional cost were minimal.

What if Mountain Project had a section devoted to the AAC and AF, what they are doing, how to get involved, etc. Organize it along with the routes database or whatever so people could see where their money goes. Or a simpler approach, just post those annual reports on the forums and have a dialog with members. Could get more traction...

I ran the Access Fund for five years, worked there for eight. Here’s my take on it.
Send a few bucks to one or more of the organizations. Doesn’t really matter which one.
Volunteer some time and/or just be real at the crag: engage land managers and other climbers in a positive manner.
A national organization is not going to take on local issues. That’s your job. They can help you.
Don’t expect any climbers’ group to be an effective lobbyist. Join the NRA if that’s your goal.
Happy climbing!

RockinGal wrote:I ran the Access Fund for five years, worked there for eight. Here’s my take on it. Send a few bucks to one or more of the organizations. Doesn’t really matter which one. Volunteer some time and/or just be real at the crag: engage land managers and other climbers in a positive manner. A national organization is not going to take on local issues. That’s your job. They can help you. Don’t expect any climbers’ group to be an effective lobbyist. Join the NRA if that’s your goal. Happy climbing!

But I'm for climbing and against guns so that won't work. I would like to see a climbers group become an effective lobbyist. Check out the OP, can you answer any of those questions?

Yes, I can answer all of those questions, but I'd rather go climbing.

RockinGal wrote:Yes, I can answer all of those questions, but I'd rather go climbing.

Well then, what good are you?

That about sums it up I would think.

and that was part of the problem

You are the one that needs to answer these questions. I spent years doing it. What good are you?

RockinGal wrote:You are the one that needs to answer these questions. I spent years doing it. What good are you?

Why? As a fellow rep. of the A.F I don't understand why you would represent in this way. If you have valuable intel (as I would hope you would after working for the company for so long) you would only weight in if there was applicable and positive feedback. Otherwise you oh-so important climbing and "having fun" schedule should have kept you busy enough to refrain from spraying useless banter online.

I uderstand the burn out factor, as well as, the frustrations that can come from grassroot-supported inititatives. However, the goal of the A.F., as well as, the AAC has always and (I assume) will always include promoting support and awareness on the local levels. Threads like this have the ability to do that but when a self-proclaimed Representative of the agency in question say they are more interested in climbing than supporting, why would any local climber (or pre-exsisting member of said organization) do anything outside of the standard of which you are setting?

Simply put: love climbing? speak up, speak out, support open lands, but most importantly: tread lightly and carry a big stick!

Mr. Holmes wrote: Why? As a fellow rep. of the A.F I don't understand why you would represent in this way. If you have valuable intel (as I would hope you would after working for the company for so long) you would only weight in if there was applicable and positive feedback. Otherwise you oh-so important climbing and "having fun" schedule should have kept you busy enough to refrain from spraying useless banter online. I uderstand the burn out factor, as well as, the frustrations that can come from grassroot-supported inititatives. However, the goal of the A.F., as well as, the AAC has always and (I assume) will always include promoting support and awareness on the local levels. Threads like this have the ability to do that but when a self-proclaimed Representative of the agency in question say they are more interested in climbing than supporting, why would any local climber (or pre-exsisting member of said organization) do anything outside of the standard of which you are setting? Simply put: love climbing? speak up, speak out, support open lands, but most importantly: tread lightly and carry a big stick!

Exactly.

Powell....

So what exactly is wrong with hundreds climbing at a place?????

And if you like/ love solitude, PM me Ill draw you a map to 10 places that no one goes to......

Williamson was a very popular, high quality area. AF AND friends of williamson haven't taken legal or other action to get it opened after SEVEN years of closure with NO evidence that climbers were harming wildlife.
The end of year date for USFS reconsideration of the closure is approaching.
What has AF done to reopen Williamson?
Malcom?!
Anyone?!

If the access fund position is "we don't work on local access issues and we aren't pro climbing lobbyists", why send them money?