Training questions

i usually choose to go on the high side after a workout. i would prefer to have the best recovery possible (i can strip off 5 lbs easily, so it might be a different scenario for others).

i agree w/ WillS's comments on the other post. not sure what the other poster mean's by your body using it more effectively. if i am at home i usually make a fruit smoothy (OJ, berries, vanilla protein powder). at the crag i use accelerade.

Will S wrote: Well, sure. That's the entire point of them, to rapidly replish glycogen, during the so-called "replacement window" when insulin sensitivity is high, preferably within 15-60min after finishing the workout. The added protein, the "1" in the 4:1 is hypothesized to further increase the insulin response. So it appears that the protein is more to boost the insulin response which in turn assists in getting the glycogen back into the muscle, rather than a need for the protein itself (of course you will need protein to repair/rebuild/etc but I'm talking specifically about the short window of insulin sensitivity and glycogen replacement...you can get your extra protein later, and too much protein in the recovery drink can hinder, rather than help) At least that's how I remember it from reading Dr. Burke's book based on his research that initiated the entire "recovery drink" boom. The book is titled "Optimum Muscle Performance and Recovery". Chris Carmichael incorporated this approach with the athletes he trained fairly early (this was Lance Armstrong's coach among others)

Yea, you're not really telling me anything i dont already know, however my point was this: based on my (and my alone) personal experiance, I feel better, recover quicker, and come back stronger next session if I utilize more natural and less processed substances in my general post-workout meal routine. I never said recovery drinks dont work, but when I was experimenting with various different options, the one thing that was a constant throughout was minor weight gain and and sugar rush and assocaited crash. That kind of sucked. Again, this pertains to myself only. If you want to suck em down, by all means do so.

Will S wrote:I have a couple of quibbles with these statements. First, the reason we use drinks, rather than concoctions with whole foods in them is the speed aspect...they digest and get in the bloodstream quicker. Second, what is your basis for the claim in bold above? Third, the amount of calories in a recovery drink doesn't need to be very high to achieve the desired effect, and if you're doing workouts where you actually need one, you've probably just burned off more than you are taking in from the drink. Adding weight from "unneeded calories" seems like a non-issue.

The basis for my above statement in bold is that generally the body (or maybe it would be better to say MY body) runs better on whole foods as opposed to synthesized chemical concoctions. The protein powder i employ is a fairly simple substance, facilitating quick, or at least quick enough, uptake to assist in recovery. Many recovery drinks are, in fact, extremely high in unneeded calories, and I agree, if you've done a workout/circuit/whatever where you do need a recovery drink, you likely do need a boost in caloric intake to assist in that department, but I personally prefer mine to be higher quality than those found in Gatoraid.

Again, I'll stress that this is what I have arrived at through trial and error, and you're certainly entitled to disagree all you like, but I continue to experience significant strength gains through these methods ( in addition to tweaks to workouts/conditioning) compared to other periods where i've used the techniques you seem to favor. Thanks for mentioning that book, it sounds like an interesting read.

best of luck to you.

AdamB wrote: ... Many recovery drinks are, in fact, extremely high in unneeded calories, and I agree, if you've done a workout/circuit/whatever where you do need a recovery drink, you likely do need a boost in caloric intake to assist in that department, but I personally prefer mine to be higher quality than those found in Gatoraid. Again, I'll stress that this is what I have arrived at through trial and error, and you're certainly entitled to disagree all you like, but I continue to experience significant strength gains through these methods ( in addition to tweaks to workouts/conditioning) compared to other periods where i've used the techniques you seem to favor. Thanks for mentioning that book, it sounds like an interesting read. best of luck to you.

Gatorade is not a recovery drink.

JLP wrote:I'd be interested to hear from others doing a lot of aerobic exercise - what kind of weight swings do you experience from the constant process of fueling and hydration vs burning that off, how you manage it. I'm around 4-5 lb swings between "tank full" and "tank empty" - eat pretty well but could always improve, 4-6% fat.

After a long hard, hot bike ride I can be be 5 pounds or more lighter than in the morning. You can only absorb liquid so fast and if you are working hard your body can only get so many calories in during a given period, in addition, for me I get an upset stomach if I'm not careful with what I eat while riding hard. I've heard that on some pro cycling teams they actually weight the riders when they get back on the team bus after a stage or race and have them eat and drink accordingly. Basically try to be aware of it and avoid it if possible, if not be realize that you will be short on supplies the next day or more as your body tries to recuperate.

LeeAB wrote: Gatorade is not a recovery drink.

I was being facetious

i guess i'm having a hard time with the theory that less processed foods are going to help you recover more quickly. it seems like more processed foods would get broken down more quickly, and have a greater chance of being absorbed during the optimum window.

slim wrote:i guess i'm having a hard time with the theory that less processed foods are going to help you recover more quickly. it seems like more processed foods would get broken down more quickly, and have a greater chance of being absorbed during the optimum window.

Well, I'm not a nutritionist by any means, and beyond what I read my only experiance comes from what I've applied. When i was into using commercially available recovery products, i regularly felt tired, low energy and depleted from one training session to the next, and my sessions never really felt like they were very high quality, and I plateaued. My diet is consistently good, but when i started eating with recovery and fueling, for lack of a better term, in mind, I felt way better, could train harder for longer sessions, and broke through my performance plateau; and have been seeing steady improvement ever since. Not to mention I feel way better.

Mike McKinnon wrote: Not a nutritionist buy my wife is. She also buys into the whole unprocessed foods are easier to absorb. She states that natural foods are more easily recognized by our body as nutrients and thus more readily bropken down. She has a bunch of research and science she shows but that is the jist of it. When our body encounters a synthasized product it usally requires more water to break down as well which depletes our bodies of water.

do they require more water for the body to utilize than you would intake with the supplement? I guess Im thinking recovery powder specifically since those are generally mixed with water. just curious.