why camalots?

I started my rack (a long time ago) with Metolius, but then I found most of the pro recommendations in the guides used the BD numbering system. So I now have a combination of both and I find it works for most applications. My problem is always having too much on my rack.

Timmamok wrote:Seems like a very narrow minded approach. There are a lot of really good cams out there, many less expensive and at least as good.

I think its good to have a well rounded rack. Mine is BD, WC and Metolius. Top end is BD with a yellow and red WC. Why? Because WC has the same range as the BD, but can be place in a crack 1/2 as shallow. So I have doubles in that range, but with twice the versatility.

Low end is BD and Metolius TCU's. Same idea with several 3 and 4 lobe cams to increase versitility.

Last four micro cams go in order of size with two micro master cams and the two red and yellow old school BD micros.

So basically I love my BD cams, but ONLY climbing on BD severely reduces your placements. To see the difference just check out a BD #2 vs a red WC. Same range but TOTALLY different sized head.

Decided double of small mastercams a set of aliens and finish off to fill BD rack with doubles and tripples in #1 to #3 get all wire helium alpine draws (12) mammut slings

mattm wrote: So did it mechanically fail or did you fail to place it properly? BD has had their cams ASSEMBLED in China for YEARS AND YEARS and yet I have yet to read of a SINGLE incident related to shoddy manufacturing. BD, I believe, still makes the parts in SLC and then has them ASSEMBLED in China. This clueless "I'm scared of BD stuff because it says China on it" mentality has born no fruit for going on what? 5? 6 years? Metolius sources their hangers from China. Madrock too. I don't see anyone whining about clipping inferior hardware on a sport climb.... Do shit products come from China? You bet. Do extremely well made products rehiring precision and attention to detail come from China. You bet (do you own an iPhone? Any Apple Product?) The most shoddily made climbing product of the last 10 years was made right here in the ole USA (Aliens). Judge a product on it's own merits and not gross over generalizations.

+1

BD's soft goods tend to be made in China, but their hardware is still manufactured in the USA.

Taylor Ogden wrote: +1 BD's soft goods tend to be made in China, but their hardware is still manufactured in the USA.

Some of it is. The Cams are assembled in China from parts made in the USA I believe (I could be wrong on this but that's what I've been led to believe.) One of the largest cost of cams is the assembly process. You can't automate it and putting all those little springs and pins and do dads together takes time and labor. So BD makes all the parts here, ships them over to their BD China plant for assembly and then ships them back. Of course I welcome corrections to this but I'm pretty sure that's how it's done these days.

EDIT: Found the quote (From BD on the original Mtn Proj post on this away back in 2007)

"Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the
same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from
USA-produced7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen
by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Alumuinum here in SLC
and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and
other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were
using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain is not
changed. "

mattm wrote: Some of it is. The Cams are assembled in China from parts made in the USA I believe (I could be wrong on this but that's what I've been led to believe.) One of the largest cost of cams is the assembly process. You can't automate it and putting all those little springs and pins and do dads together takes time and labor. So BD makes all the parts here, ships them over to their BD China plant for assembly and then ships them back. Of course I welcome corrections to this but I'm pretty sure that's how it's done these days. EDIT: Found the quote (From BD on the original Mtn Proj post on this away back in 2007) "Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from USA-produced7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Alumuinum here in SLC and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain is not changed. "

Just to clarify things-As of 2012, C3 cam lobes are still made in the SLC facility. C4 lobe machining was moved to China a few years ago. All assembly of BD cams is currently done in China.

Sam Feuerborn wrote:Oh man I cant't say a nice thing about BD, climbed on a friends rack this weekend and placed a purple c3 on Zeus,whipped and it blew right out. They inspire no confidence since they've moved to China.

The manufacturing may have been done in China, yes...
But the design has nothing to do with China.

Are you blaming a manufacturing defect for failure? If so, that's huge news and needs to be examined. Otherwise, you're grinding the wrong axe in the wrong place and the first sentence uttered is more relevant to the context than anything else.

Sam Feuerborn wrote: hahaha I like that people took me seriously. man I might have to try this interwebz trolling business more often.

Well, your ability to mimic the real thing was great, and I suspect you only beat them to it by a few minutes.

You got me anyway. Nice one!

The efficacy of a troll depends mostly upon the ability of the troller to say something that is commonly said/heard with actual earnestness. And this is a broken record we've heard every since the Bottle Belt (TM).

Don't have a single BD cam on my rack - I generally try to not reward the copiers of the original product, no matter what the product is. While not particularly bothered by the made in China moniker, I definitely prefer the made in Wales moniker, at least when those suckers are born from the forge they're a stone's throw from Lliwedd, The Pass and Cloggy.

But hey I'm an old transplanted romantic - so forgive me my traditionalist ramblings.

Chris Owen wrote:Don't have a single BD cam on my rack - I generally try to not reward the copiers of the original product, no matter what the product is.

So you're still rocking your walkman, VCR, tube TV etc?

I'm only on my first cup of coffee, but that comment doesn't seem to make alot of sense in my caffine free brain.

FEEDING THE TROLL MAKES THEM STRONGER...

Gotta say I luv my BD and got loads of them in every size. For me it is nice to look down at the rack and know what to grab (LOL)..
With that said a fat rack of TCUs provides great additional pieces. Of course don't forget the Big Bros!!!! Never leave home without them bad dogs!!

Which is preferable C3 or tcu or alien or mastercam?

Sam Feuerborn wrote:Oh man I cant't say a nice thing about BD, climbed on a friends rack this weekend and placed a purple c3 on Zeus,whipped and it blew right out. They inspire no confidence since they've moved to China.

Camalots being manufactured in China has literally no connection to your obvious lack of ability to place gear correctly.

jumping fish wrote:Which is preferable C3 or tcu or alien or mastercam?

Depends what/ where you're climbing. But as I see it a rack of both c3's and aliens are the way to go especially since you can get reliable aliens and they compliment each other almost perfectly. C3's and Aliens can go in some weird places, and both have a gnarly small head widths. Sure you could do just about the same with C3's and mastercams but for me the aliens win.

I love my metolius tcu's. BD's are my choice for .75 and up...but man do I love the TCU's. I love the control of the u stem. Took my first trad fall on a purple tcu years ago, and have been sold ever since. I love the feel of the u stem. Call me crazy.

Scott McMahon wrote: So you're still rocking your walkman, VCR, tube TV etc? I'm only on my first cup of coffee, but that comment doesn't seem to make alot of sense in my caffine free brain.

To which comment do you refer Scott? In my defense; I like to think I'm fairly current on technology.

Sam Feuerborn wrote:Oh man I cant't say a nice thing about BD, climbed on a friends rack this weekend and placed a purple c3 on Zeus,whipped and it blew right out.

That's funny. You whipped onto one of the smallest cams on the planet in sandstone and you are surprised it blew right out. Even a perfect placement in the best sandstone with a cam that small is suspect.

Chris Owen wrote: To which comment do you refer Scott? In my defense; I like to think I'm fairly current on technology.

This comment. I guess I just don't understand that statment. Isn't 99% of everything a copy of the original product?

I have found BD to be the best IMHO. The have great range, great holding power and are mechanically reliable. I have used Metolius, Friends and other- even have a few on my rack- but BD is the favorite and go-to cam.

Yes they may weight a bit more, but so be it. I use nuts, BD cams, aliens, Omega Link cams and some various other cams to make a diverse and solid rack.

For my most used and basic rack, its nuts, BD and Omega links- covers about everything. Cant say enough about the link cams, great addition to the rack, all four sizes.

In the end- it comes down to what you like, feel safest with and what allows you to climb your best and come home in one piece.