Biners unclipping themselves from bolts

In the past three years I've had three biners unclip themselves from a bolt. Twice it was a hotwire, and once it was a dirtbag draw. Its gotten to the point where I'v begun doubling-up draws on certain bolts on sport routes, and I feel that its beginning to shake my confidence. No, I'm not kicking the draws as I climb over them.

Does anyone know why this might be happening? Do wire-gates have a tendency to unclip themselves more frequently?

alexdavis wrote:In the past three years I've had three biners unclip themselves from a bolt. Twice it was a hotwire, and once it was a dirtbag draw. Its gotten to the point where I'v begun doubling-up draws on certain bolts on sport routes, and I feel that its beginning to shake my confidence. No, I'm not kicking the draws as I climb over them. Does anyone know why this might be happening? Do wire-gates have a tendency to unclip themselves more frequently?

Are you orienting the draws the right way when you put them up?

See here for some pictures and discussion.

JohnWesely wrote: Are you orienting the draws the right way when you put them up?

Yes.

Make a locker draw for the really important clips. 

alexdavis wrote: Yes.

The gate on your top draw is facing the opposite direction that you are moving?

It has happened to me once too. It was pretty scary because I could not downclimb to fix it. I had to continue up to the next bolt. By then I was 30 feet up a 5.12 with no protection. Got lucky.

Perin Blanchard wrote:See here for some pictures and discussion.

That's a good link. Between the two situations shown on that page, the common factor is that the biner is flipping up/rotating. I wonder if there is a way to prevent (or reduce) that from happening, or if there are factors that contribute to it happening.

JohnWesely wrote: The gate on your top draw is facing the opposite direction that you are moving?

No, actually...generally I just orient the bottom gate. The dirtbags are set up out of the box with opposite facing biners on each end (which I could adjust, obviously). My understanding is that the direction of the top biner is irrelevant

I carry a draw or two with locking biners to place on bolts where the loads might open the gate (eg top bolt above the ledge, City Slickers, Primo Wall, Clear Creek), or where the consequences of the draw unclipping would be bad.

Alex, your last post says it all. The direction of the gate on the top draw is critical if you are going to climb to either side of the bolt line. I use an old trad trick:

First, find draws that have a somewhat open top loop. Most "dogbone" style do not.
Second, rig the 'biners on the draws so that the gates face the same way.
Third, when you clip the bolt, orient the 'biners so that their spines are facing the way you are going.
Fourth, flip the top 'biner over.

It's almost impossible to unclip from a bolt if the gate is on the bottom. It'll be a PITA for cleaning but, so what.

Climb safe,
Mal

Malcolm Daly wrote:Alex, your last post says it all. The direction of the gate on the top draw is critical if you are going to climb to either side of the bolt line. I use an old trad trick: First, find draws that have a somewhat open top loop. Most "dogbone" style do not. Second, rig the 'biners on the draws so that the gates face the same way. Third, when you clip the bolt, orient the 'biners so that their spines are facing the way you are going. Fourth, flip the top 'biner over. It's almost impossible to unclip from a bolt if the gate is on the bottom. It'll be a PITA for cleaning but, so what. Climb safe, Mal

Thanks for the tip. Is the purpose of having orienting the top biner as described above so that the gate doesn't catch on the bolt-head?

alexdavis wrote: No, actually...generally I just orient the bottom gate. The dirtbags are set up out of the box with opposite facing biners on each end (which I could adjust, obviously). My understanding is that the direction of the top biner is irrelevant

That is why your draws unclipped.

Malcolm Daly wrote:rig the 'biners on the draws so that the gates face the same way.

+1

i think this alone alleviates most of the issue.

many think it doesn't really matter, or its just a preference, until you see it happen for yourself...

JohnWesely wrote: That is why your draws unclipped.

Can't be the sole reason though, because as mentioned above the hotwires did that and it wasn't in a draw setup, but rather an anchor where there was a long sling attached.

When I was a bumbling noob I used to carry draws facing the same way and opposite so that I could always have the "perfect" bolt and rope biner orientation. Then I found out over time and more experience that the rope biner orientation wasn't as important, and I keep all my draws facing the same way now, and almost always clip with the bolt biner gate facing away from the bolt. If this means I could potentially fall across the gate of the rope biner this isn't as big a deal IME as long as you aren't backclipped. Occasionally I will use Malcom's biner flip on the bolt when I think orientation is important.

another article:
spadout.com/a/face-those-ga…

what's common to both situations in the linked pictures is that the climber is moving to the gate side of the top biner. This is the situation to avoid. Also, all of the 'sporty' draws I have do have a looser end for the bolt biner, which may help avoid the rigid rotation into the hanger or bolt.

Darren Mabe wrote: +1 i think this alone alleviates most of the issue. many think it doesn't really matter, or its just a preference, until you see it happen for yourself...

But once you flip the top biner as described in his post, the top biner gate is now facing in the direction of travel.

alexdavis wrote: But once you flip the top biner as described in his post, the top biner gate is now facing in the direction of travel.

i think malcolm meant if the biners are opposed on the draws, then flipping the bolt-end biner, while you're climbing, can help.

Darren Mabe wrote: i think malcolm meant if the biners are opposed on the draws, then flipping the bolt-end biner, while you're climbing, can help.

I don't think so. See step two of his post.